SPEAKER_00 0:00

Eat all right, welcome to Ed Leadership on Tap. How are you guys?

SPEAKER_03 0:27

All good. Gilbert, everything is great. Great to see you, sir.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Originally we had scheduled to have a part two to our AI discussion from last week. However, due to the fact that we are getting close to the end of the year, uh, teachers right now are super busy getting ready for finals. And so we should have known better, Gilbert. Exactly. Yes. Yes. So we're gonna have to reschedule that. We definitely will.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Um But we have an exciting segment for you. So just hang with us.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

We decided to pivot and do a leadership unplug segment.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yep. But let's get some feedback from our listeners that we talked about AI. And uh our listener, longtime listener Nancy, always talks about let's kind of reverse. We talked a little bit about the students using AI, but what happens if a student uses AI and turns in the paper? How do we feel about teachers using AI to grade it? Um, and you know, kind of flip it. We we think about students using it. What about the teachers using it? And we also talked about what we would use AI to do in our normal life. And uh, we had one that talked about just dusting, you know, dusting is such a mundane job. You know, you dust, and two minutes later you go back over there, and there's still dust.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

So I'm picturing the Jetsons robot right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah, we talked about Rosie the robot, exactly. So, you know, what can we do? And and one of them was brought up was dusting the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

And then another listener also said, kind of felt like me, they would like a landscape architect. Yes, do the yard work, exactly flower beds, yard, pruning, everything.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yes. So we appreciate your guys' feedback, and and we promise we will come back with a teacher and and get some feedback about AI.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

On another note, this is our penultimate episode of the season.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Ooh, that's a big word, Dr. G. Next to last. Next to last. All right, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

So I am very interested in having a summer episode, one episode during the summer, based on listener questions. So if we could have our listeners send in some questions, we would love to have a summer episode so it's not such a long wait between season one and season two. I love it. What we normally do during the summer is we try to get ahead of a schedule and record several episodes. So that's what we plan on doing. But look for us starting back again in August. We will Facebook and tweet and Instagram out the exact dates in the future. So uh we're getting ready to wind down season one and we haven't been canceled, and we have been renewed for season two.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Yes, yes. We maybe had to bribe someone to to let us do season two, but we we truly value your guys' input and the and the feedback we've got, and we have a great episode 18 in store. You ready to do it, Dr. G? Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

All right, welcome back to Ed Leadership on Tap. We are going to have a special segment today. Leadership Unplugged.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Previously, we've had uh Ted Wilman.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Yep, and Dr. Mike Finnegan who's on there with us. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

And today is esteemed guest.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Yes, we are blessed today with the Matt Kriner.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Want to welcome the one and only Matt Kreiner today and pick your brain on some of your leadership background and uh what you can share with listeners about uh how you became the man, the myth, and the legend.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

So I guess let's get started, Matt, with a little bit about your career because I know you used to be in education. Um, so just talk about that and what you're currently doing.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Sure. Um I taught for about and coached for 18 years, uh, my last eight being in Grapevine High School G C I S D. And so I started teaching and coaching. Um, and when I first moved to Texas, because I came out of kind of a law enforcement style background, I was investigating crimes against children and doing some interesting stuff there, but I wanted to make more of a uh proactive route. And um, that's when I got into education and I loved it, loved my time in education. It was awesome. Teaching coaching is was very rewarding.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

So were you coaching from the beginning or did you get into it later on?

SPEAKER_02 5:08

My first year of coaching, I was an assistant coach in AISD coaching wrestling and baseball, and I had never played a day of baseball in my entire life. So I had to coach the freshman team, and we went undefeated, and uh definitely due to talent, not coaching. I was just uh along for the ride, but uh we had a good time. So I was coaching from the beginning, teaching and coaching, both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

So never never having played baseball, and you got a group that you inherit that's got the talent to go undefeated, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

We stole a lot of bases. I stole everything. I was like, we're still on first to second to third to home. We were going after the bases because I didn't know if we'd ever get a hit again. So once we got on base, we try to take advantage of it.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So you also coach football?

SPEAKER_02 5:47

I did the sports I coached. I did baseball for one year. And then when I was in GPISD, I coached only wrestling. Then I would help out with a cross-country team here and there. And then when I came to Grapevine, I had never played football before because I was a very small guy of stature in Oklahoma. So football was not my future, and so um I had never played it before, I just did wrestling. So but when I came to Grapevine, I did football and wrestling, and uh I did football for two years, and then I went, you know, I think my talents weren't deemed necessary, which was probably for the best. And so I did all wrestling so they could get I could focus and they could focus on uh getting a new football.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I'm really intrigued by this. So you had one year coaching baseball and you went undefeated, and then you hung it up at that point. So you got to go out on top, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

I it's like Seinfeld, you want to make sure you want to go at the top of your ratings.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I I wonder how many coaches in the history of Texas high school baseball could say that they retired undefeated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I'm currently applying to be in the Hall of Fame for baseball. My application is still under review, but I need to follow back out. I mean, we were undefeated. JV actually was freshman B team or A team, I forget what it was. We were undefeated, maybe one of the best teams ever, but I'll keep y'all posted. I need to do a follow-up uh special on me if I get in on that, on that team.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

So you spent um eight years at Gradevine High School.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

And, you know, uh we we all worked with Matt over the years and and and love his leadership. And and I think one of the things that's most special about Matt is he is probably one of the top five relationship builders that I've worked with over the years. Um and and he understands the true idea of relationships. So you have parlayed now, you know, your time and in education and and kind of tell the listeners what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

So after um, I was coaching and teaching eight 18 years, and I loved every year of it. It was awesome. But sometimes personally, you feel like you need to change, do something different. So um what I went into is I'm a big grapevine guy. Um all districts I've been to have been great, but I live in this community, so I want to be a continue to be a part of it. So I partlay that into um working with the city of Grapevine in their parks and rec department. So I've been there for almost three years, uh, and it's wonderful. Uh I started out working as a camps and after school programs coordinator, and now I run the therapeutic rec division. I'm the supervisor of that division for local city. So we kind of cater to any program that the city offers that interacts or assists or works with adults with special needs, whether that be through the city or subcontractors that we manage, that comes through me and so and my team. So that's what I do now. And it's awesome. Parks and Rec is great, but with Parks and Rec, we kind of dabble in everything. You'll see me at Therapeutic Rec, but you also see me at Opening Day of Baseball or on Instagram doing Matt on Emission Reels, which you have to go check those out. They're awesome. But we work with our market, we do everything. We kind of keep our hands in all pots at CD Gray Vine.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Just as an aside, Matt is the one that's responsible for me getting my retirement job.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

So I always like to look out for good people, especially people I know, but teachers always make great employees. You all know this. Yeah, always helping fund our podcast right now. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

So, so going back to that, you know, as I introduced about your relationships, you know, you you this that is a strength of Matt Kriner, hands down with kids, students, parents, etc. So, how how over your years have you really been intentional about building relationships?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I was thinking about that because I was looking at the notes before and I was like, well, how have I? And so it's almost like, how do I explain? And I don't want to sound weird, but like, how do you explain how you breathe? You just do it, right? I think some people, for me, I mean, you all know me, it comes a little bit more natural for me than I think others. But I think um for me, I was very like I really wanted to know, like when I'll give it, for example, like with my wrestlers or or my students, I really and was invested in how they were as a person. I wasn't really worried about them failing or winning matches. I mean, I was, but that was secondary. Primary was me like getting to know them as a human. Like, what are they, you know, what what movies do they like? Like, what's their girlfriend's name, their boyfriend's name, like what's your parents' name, what do you like to eat? What's your favorite, like that stuff? Like, it wasn't fake. Like, we would talk about those things. I remember in our locker rooms, a lot of our times when I was coaching wrestling at Grave Mine, we would talk wrestling in the locker room, but a lot of times we would talk about what church they went to or what they went what they did that weekend, or how they suck at this video game. Like, we would have conversations, and I think um the conversational, intentional comment like that made that mattered because they remember those things. Even when I talk to my former students and wrestlers, they know that it wasn't manufactured, it was authentic what they got from me. Like I kept it real with them 100%. Um, so that was mine was real authentic, real genuine, like and genuine curiosity. I really wanted to know.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah. And in that role, and in in even in your current work, you're getting to to mentor some other people. Did you have a mentor, or was there anyone you when you think back that kind of was was an important leader in your life growing up?

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Growing up, we can all think about coaches and teachers, but I remember I was a really small guy. I mean, I weighed, I think I wrestled 75 pounds in seventh grade. And I remember I went oh in 32. I didn't win a match.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

This is the opposite of your baseball career.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Exactly. I should have learned for myself. But um, and a lot of people, um, I they would have quit, but I had a coach, his name was Coach Hudson. He's he still uh lives in Oklahoma. I think he did coach baseball and wrestling. But he just had a way about him where he was like, Well, you're not gonna quit. Like you're gonna, like it was even a foregone conclusion that would even be a possibility. Like he didn't even let me contemplate it, right? He was like, No, you're gonna be fine. And he explained it. And so um, but having guys like that that believed, like him telling me, like, you're not quitting, you're gonna be just fine, you're gonna hang with it, like that resonated with me because most times, like I even tried basketball growing up. You'd have coaches say, This isn't for you, and they were right. But I've you finally had someone tell you um that you're gonna be okay. Um, and you're sticking with it. You're sticking with it. Like, you're not quitting. We're gonna go in the weight room and we're gonna go work harder and you're gonna change your training partner, and here's what you're gonna do to get better.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Um, so that was a good leader. And then I had another guy named Steve Whittaker, he's retired. He's the used to be the CEO of John 316 Mission in Tulsa, and so they deal with homeless outreach. But he was a karate instructor, and so he would focus on inner city youth. That was 99% of his clientele. But then there were these two kids from the country. It was me and a neighbor. We would go take lessons from him for like 10, 12 years, and he was a hard man, but he was hard, but awesome to be around. And he kind of taught me a lot of resiliency and toughness, I think, that helped me not have that no-quit attitude. And so that went a long way. Those two guys, in terms of non-family influences, I had a great parents, they were also positive influences, but outside the realm of family, those two guys were probably my top two, and then really good youth pastors and stuff growing up with my church that were also rock solid, that always were looking out for you. So I always had someone in my corner outside of my family, coaches, uh, other mentors, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

So as an athlete and a coach, you've had the opportunity to observe many people who are leaders. What were some of those mistakes that you said, hmm? That's one approach that I probably don't want to use. You don't have to name names.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

I think sometimes, like the very I'm not gonna name names, but the worst leaders I was around when you could tell that they were just going through the motions when they would talk to you, like you're talking to me like I'm a painting on a wall or I'm a TV show. You're not even talking with me, you're talking at me. And you could feel, and you've all been in these conversations, you can feel like the disingenuousness of what they're doing, what they're saying, right? Especially leaders and especially young leaders, I think they get caught up in the buzzwords. Yeah, right. And we play buzz, yeah, um, synergy, like, and those are circle back. Like I get it, but I think sometimes you have to be real with the conversations you have with with people, and when you kind of just buzzword your way around someone, it's a real turn off. And so, but on the flip side, and something I even wrote down in the notes is you I've had bad leaders and I've had good ones, but you learn lessons from all of them. Oh, that's true. Absolutely, yeah. 100%. So I mean, there's not like the lesson is like I'm not gonna be like that person, but detailed stuff. Like, I remember how that conversation made me feel. Yeah. I'm not gonna talk like that with anyone.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

You know, and in education, you mentioned buzzwords. That is something that you it's very easy to fall into in our line of work because I mean it's like every other word is a buzzword.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Well, the and the pendulum swings every few years, it comes back, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Seems like there's a reinventing of the wheel sometimes, especially in education, it gets that way.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

So you know what what you kind of brought up about that authentic, you know, that listening and talking at, um, we had had um Dr. Finnegan on here, and and he's a uh he's at Oklahoma State now, so right up right up your alley, Grinder. Um, and and something he had said, and and it it's rang in my head, and I haven't gotten it out. And when he talked about those relationships and conversations, he said, you know, the most important thing is to be interested, not interesting. You're interested in that person that's in front of you, not trying to be the interesting person. And I had I had never thought of it that way, and it's kind of stuck with me. And I think kids can tell the difference.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Oh, yeah, absolutely. They're very intuitive. Yeah. Like, and they remember, I remember I would talk kids, I and I was real physical, I don't mean in a bad way, but I'd put my arm around and we talk down the hallway. And I remember they would tell me something, and I didn't want to forget, and I would write down in my phone like these notes. I got to follow up with them on that. Yeah so I don't for not that, you know, because I forget what I had for lunch yesterday. All right. So I would write down notes. I need to follow up with him to make sure I want to know, and B, I want him to know that I care about wanting to know. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

I would do the same thing in a seating chart in my classroom. Like I had the kids' names on a seating chart and I would hear something and have that same sort of thought. Like, I need to circle back with them on that. Like that matters to them and come back. So I can tell, you know, based off what you shared just now, that authenticity is a trait that you value very in a leader. What are some other traits that you think effective leaders have in common?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Let me think here. Um, I think if you're authentic, and I wrote it down here, oh I think people that lead from the front, we've all seen leaders. Hey, y'all, we got especially like I'll give an example. Like we used to run, it still happens, grave mine duels, rolling mats up in the wrestling tournament is horrible. Right. And we're telling P people to do, I need you to roll these mats, I need to go clean these mats, or I need you to move these tables. But if that's happening and I'm not being a part of that process for getting this job done, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Especially as a leader, everyone's looking at you. What are you doing? Are you telling me what to do? Are you part of the solution? Sure. So leading from the front, I think is a big deal. Um, kind of getting your hands dirty. Um, another thing that I like to do is, and I read it somewhere, it's not my thing, but it's uh a we not me for success and a me not we for failure. So whenever we were successful, or I was successful, like even now at the City of Great Mind, my team does something awesome. It's a we did something great.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

When I was wrestling, we did a we had a great tournament. But I remember if we had some areas where we we dropped the ball or some mistakes were were made, we dropped off my vocabulary. Here's here's what I did. Yeah, here's here's where I dropped the ball and why this happened.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Here's the mistake that I made.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Here's a mistake that I made that could have that m played a part in this failure. Because failure is gonna happen, right? So I think making sure that you own the six the failures individually. I'll take that on me, especially as as a leader, because you have to have that buck. The buck stops with me. We're not making excuses, but on the success part, you got to include that's a team effort, and that's not a me effort.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I see some of that in some of the great NFL coaches. For example, Dan Campbell, any anytime that there's a loss, he'll stay up there. And I did a bad job of coaching today.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

No, I didn't get the team prepared. Correct. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

And what that inadvertently does is absolutely builds loyalty in your team. You know, if if they know, you know, that that you're willing to stand up there, they they know the truth. And so if it was a team failure and they see you accepting responsibility, there's an appreciation and a respect for that. Um, but internally they're having that conversation of, you know, we need to step up more also.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

I remember one time we got, I mean it was my first or second year at Grave Mine, and we got just clobbered and we didn't lose much. But when we the other couple times we got clobbered, and I took that on the chin. I was like, this is my fault. I didn't prepare you well enough. Yeah, I didn't get you ready. And then in the locker room, you hear a comic like they know I have their back. They're like, hey guys, we got to work harder, we're not doing this. Not in here, like, is that make not that that was my intention, yeah, but that's what they took from it and they ran with that.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

And you can you know, Crow, you've mentioned this before about uh players or you know, members of a team that are willing to run through walls for their leader. Yeah, that's where that that comes from. Yeah. When those leaders take responsibility for failure.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Yeah. And and even as a spectator, we're talking sports here, um, but I mean it can go to any profession, is you know, even when that spectator goes, man, the hell wasn't a coach or yeah, right. We we know you they had better players or better whatever, but it still sends a message that you believe in your players, your athletes, your teachers, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Uh that that makes a very big difference for sure. It's taking ownership. Absolutely. Extreme ownership, which you'll hear me talk about later, but you gotta have you gotta take take some ownership of uh of of the mistakes that happen, whether it's in a classroom or on a football field. You gotta own it, you gotta own it.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Let's move into that. Extreme ownership. Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

The book? Yes. It's a great book. It's one of my favorite top books for all leaders. If you want to be a leader and you have not read that book, that is a great weekend assignment.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Write it down right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Write it down. Extreme ownership. We do a book study. I took um some of the City of Great Vine employees through on uh extreme o extreme ownership.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

And that's just the So give us the premise of kind of Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Extreme ownership. I'll give a quick rundown. Yeah. He's a podcaster as well. He's like you guys, he does what you all do. He's your I'm sure on a little higher scale, but he's your brethren. Extreme ownership. So it's like run by a guy named Jocko, former Navy SEAL, uh jujitsu pract practitioner. But um, he wrote a book, one of many, but I think this was his first New York Times bestseller on extreme ownership. And it talked about um life and lessons learned when he was a leader of Navy SEALs. And granted, there's a stark difference between leading on a battlefield and leading in the classroom or leading on a football field. But the mindset is we're owning everything of this. Like, and so extreme ownership for me is like even if there is something that is not something happens at the city or wherever your job is or the classroom is, you've got to find out what is something that you could have done that could contribute to that success or failure to the extreme. Like there are things that happen at my job and at your guys' job that's probably not directly your fault. But through extreme ownership, you got to think about what I could have done differently where I could have made a difference there. And that's kind of a real basic rundown, but extreme ownership, the best leadership book I've ever read. And it goes on. There's a whole bunch more the dichotomy of leadership. You can keep on going and going and going, but his uh his lessons on uh being A leader were phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

I like it because when you think about teams that fail or people that fail, a lot of times you see the opposite of that. You see who, where can I place blame? Right. What excuses exist that are outside my control? What circumstances got thrown in my lap that were beyond my control? But but that's an interesting approach to say, whatever happens, what you know, let me look at it from the lens of what could I have done? What could you have done?

SPEAKER_02 22:26

It's great to be, I mean, it's always important to be, we were talking about earlier, be reflective. Sure. And that's where that cunk that that comes in. Like I'll get really reflective. We all have those late night moments. You're laying in bed, right? Like, dang, what could I have done different in that situation? Oh, absolutely. But you gotta have those. If not, you're gonna struggle as a person, let alone as a leader. Like you're gonna struggle.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

So, Matt, our podcast is aimed at educational leaders, aspiring leaders. What advice would you give to someone who is maybe in an assistant principal position or a teacher position that's thinking of moving up into an administrative position? What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_02 23:03

I did a little bit of AP work at one district. Um and it was awesome. But I think the biggest thing whether they're going from the classroom, I mean, most APs come from the classroom. And from a teaching perspective, I think it's important that APs and principals don't lose sight of the people in the trenches. And what I mean by not lose sight, um you've got to listen to your people that are doing the work. Not that APs and principals don't do work, it's just different, right? Um, but I think and it's happened before, we've all seen it, where sometimes APs principals are very caught up in the big picture, which I get they should be. You need that. But you've got to take into account the people that are in the trenches and take their advice and listen to them. Because sometimes the devil's in the details. Yeah. When you're when you got your hands in so many pots as an AP or principal, it's easy to kind of overlook things or take things for granted. So I think I call it, and I wrote it down, is you got to listen to your sergeants. Like when a when a lieutenant first gets his commission, right? He gets in into a platoon. And he doesn't know these people from Adam. Your job is to listen to the people that have been there that you you know that have a good reputation, that put the work in. For an aspiring leader, principal, find your teachers and department heads that are veterans, that the kids love, that have a great standing in the community, listen to what they're saying. If they have a complaint or if they have an observation, it's probably right on the money.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

And don't lose sight of that because a lot of times I think it's easy to lose sight of that. Always you got to have, I mean, if I was an AP, I would have someone, a teacher in my corner, like, what are we doing wrong? What are we missing?

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Is there anything we can do better? Like, not just checking a box that I'm doing it. I'm checking the box, I'm doing it, but also applying what I'm learning. Yeah. And so you've got to keep listening to your sergeants.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Yeah, no, we had talked about that at one time of, you know, when I was at Grapevine, I had those people, the the Jane Roses, the Jeff Nisbitz, the, you know, Matt Kriners, the Lori Cleveland's, the the teachers that that Kristen Oviat, another one, um, you know, I could go down to and go, all right, what's the you know, kind of check the pulse of what's going on and and those people that you have to have those people that you trust that, you know, they may call your BS on something, but that's okay. And and and you know it's coming from a good place because you have that relationship.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

And something you said is he said people that he trusts, right? But that goes both ways. Yeah. And so what he and what Dave did, what you all did, because I worked with all three of y'all, is for you to get that feedback, you've got to develop that trust with them too, especially if you're new. If your teachers that are your sergeants are awesome, but they don't trust you or know you yet, that goes back to the relational piece. So, what are you doing to develop that so you can get that feedback? Because if they don't trust you, they're not gonna tell you. They're gonna just tell you what you want to hear. Yep. And no one gets any better and nothing changes.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

I mean, you were there and all of us knuckleheads come in there and you know, I I think we did a nice job of we figured it out. Yeah, and developing those relationships with people.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Yeah, you guys were intentional about it. And it wasn't buzzwordy, it was real.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

And the best way to get teachers trust as an administrator when they ask for something, deliver. Yeah, and that's that that's a great start.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Absolutely. Yes, follow up. Like if they email you a a a question, like I'll circle back to you on that, and then you never circle back, no matter how busy you get and APs get busy, you're gonna lose trust, even though you didn't mean to. That's gonna happen because it's happened to me as a teacher. I'm like, dang, he didn't even get back. Yeah, or she didn't get back, whatever it was. Like that's that it may not be nothing or be out of the radar, off the radar for that AP, but that teacher will remember it for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yep. And you you referenced earlier writing something down when you hear it from a student. And I think the same is true when you get a request from a staff member. So um, you know, I I keep notes in my phone all the time or write something down all the time because I had a had someone tell me that one time that, like, when a teacher mentions something to you as an assistant principal, for example, in the hallway, um, you you may be rushing off to do 10 more things and you you mentally add it to your list, but you forget, you know, to get back to them on it. For them, they took the time to find you, seek you out, share that with you. So they're feeling like if you don't act on it, then it then it's not important to you. So I'm not important to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

And with today's technology, it's very easy. Not only do you write it down, but set yourself an alarm, you know, in seven days. Hey, go back and touch base on this.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

I have regular conversations with Australian Siri in my phone. 100%. Yeah. She reminds me of all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

And when you do drop the ball, because it does happen, it's okay to apologize. I say, like, even with my team now, they'll ask me something, remind me something, and I'm like, I will take care of that, and I won't. And then, like, I need and then I'm like, it's important for me to, hey, you know what? I dropped the ball on that.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

And it's it's a I'm sorry. Like, things are gonna happen. We're gonna drop the ball. But it's a good to acknowledge that you made the mistake and you're gonna work to get past it.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Yeah. Does that make sense? 100%. Yeah. So, so you worked, you said 18 years in public education, um, had some law enforcement before that, now last few years uh in in city leadership. So think back to 21-year-old Matt Kriner. This is dangerous. I know it's very dangerous. You know, how would you say your definition of leadership has evolved from, you know, kind of those early days as you know, coaching or being in the classroom or in your law enforcement to how you are as a leader today?

SPEAKER_02 28:38

If I could talk to 20-year-old me, we'll say 24, a 20-year-old me with less than a lot of people. I would think listen more, talk less.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Listen more, talk mean. God gave you two years in a mouth for a reason, right? We've all heard that phrase. But listen more, talk less. I think, especially when you're young and you're a young, hungry, aspiring leader, you want to just you're fired up, and I get it. Yeah. But listen more, talk less, take time. And it's it was hard for me because I was I mean, you all know me, I'm pretty voisterous, right? I'm pretty intense from time to time. But I need to, and that's something I still work on listening, not reacting, and listen more, talk less. Um, another thing I wrote down, and this has to do with coaches and teachers. Um, but I always talked about um one of the best things I ever heard when I was an aspiring, when I was a first year coach and teacher, and I think coaches tend to get lost in this, is uh I had an athletic director tell all of this teaching's 90% of your pay, coaching is 10%. He goes, You need to figure out real quick which one's more important. And I go, and that hit me. I'm like, you didn't hire me to be the wrestling coach, you hired me to teach X class and also do this. But the educational piece is number one because if the if you're not take taking care of the classroom, you're not gonna take care of it on the football field or the wrestling mat, whatever that is. Um, so that was a big one that I could have been better at growing up or when I was young adult. And then um another thing I struggled with was seeing others' perspective when I was younger. How so I just tend to think maybe it's me, but like my way was always the best way. Right? And I'm like, well, my way is definitely better, and this is stupid. And we've all had those in mind, but I had to have more of I had to have a life experience. Like, um, and you don't get, I mean, it just comes with experience, and maybe I could take some advice and that would have resonated more, but I needed to hear other people's perspective because a 40-year-old father of three boys that's working a job and his mom's working job, and I'm wondering why the kid's homework isn't getting done. Well, do you know what they're dealing with at home? Yeah, yeah. Whereas how how I grew up is probably a lot different than how other people grew up. And so my perspective is a little bit, it's just tunnel vision, right? We get it. And so I've had to, because I've encountered so many perspectives over, you know, 20 plus years being in a leadership role, I've had to learn to take value in that and kind of see it through a different lens. But 23, 24 year old me kind of was like my way or the highway. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's something I should have done better, but I didn't. But I'm getting better now.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

No, I think that makes a lot of sense. You know, I I think our our perspective is based on the experiences we've had. And and I think the older we get and the longer you've been in the business, or just in life in general, you realize that there are other things out there and other perspectives. And like you said, why is this homework not getting done? Well, this kid has been up taking care of these four kids, brothers and sisters. So I I that's a that's a great way of thinking of it. Yep. Slow down, look at other perspectives. Take time and think.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

And I was really reactive growing up. I'd instantly give an answer. Instantly. I'm like, here's what we're gonna do. And then now And they were always right. 100%. Yeah. Why wouldn't they be? But now I purposely like I'll get an email and I want to respond instantly with what I'm gonna, here's what we're doing, but I'll take a day and just consider. Yeah. Not with all things, but with things I've kind of, you know, I have a little bit more meat in the email. Like this, I'm gonna if it requires me to take a pause, I want to make sure that pause, unless it's some urgent matter, is gonna take about a day. Not because I'm lazy, but I want to think. And what I let it call circle the drain. Let it let me think about it for a bit. Um and then another thing, I think, and I we talked about it, but I didn't, you know, I think it's easy when you're young to blame other people for your mistakes. Well, we didn't they didn't pass because of this, and they didn't win because of this, or whatever. Take ownership. Yep. They may be at fault, people are at fault. But you know what? What control you can can can control, but I didn't take ownership to the extreme that I could have. Um and then listen, and I talked about it earlier, but you know, I should have listened to the people that have been there longer than me. I think when up-and-coming leaders get in positions, they're they're ready and their hearts in the right place, they're ready to change the world, right? They've seen the movies, they've read the books, they're gonna be that guy. Maybe you will, but take time, listen to people that have been there. They've been there and made a career in this field for a reason, and they're still here doing the job. So listen to those voices. I think I could have done better. I mean, I did an okay job, but we can always I could have done better.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

So, Kriner, what's been the most difficult leadership lesson that you've had to learn?

SPEAKER_02 33:29

This is a tough pill to swallow, but something I've had to learn, and it's tough because we're very competitive by nature. But sometimes trying your best doesn't always lead to success. Like it is what it is. You can give it your best shot and you can work your tail off for something and put your heart and soul into it. But sometimes things aren't just meant to be. And so that was very tough for me because we, you know, we grew up and and I still believe in this, and we still try like we can overcome anything, and and you know, and we can, you know, be anything you I we just in this world today, like we we were raised like you can do anything you set your mind to, and I still believe that, but sometimes trying your best, you're still not gonna be successful. And I think the important lesson from that is what are you gonna do after you're not successful? Yeah, are you gonna quit or are you gonna keep trying? Are you gonna keep persever like persevering? So that was a tough lesson is I can give something my all and give something my best and not and still not have the outcome that I want. Um, but on the flip side, what I learned from that, like how am I gonna get better because of it? I didn't get the outcome I wanted. Okay, what did I learn? What can I do different? And then what do you do? You're gonna stay down on the ground, you're gonna get up and and try something different or or go again or find a new path or find a new goal. But that was it's still a tough lesson now. Even now, I mean, that never becomes an easier pill to swallow. It's just how you handle it. But it's gonna happen in life to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah, and I'm glad you said try something different, because in the end, yeah, if you're not successful at what you're doing, then you need to do something else. Find something that you are successful at. That's okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So as we kind of wrap up the podcast here, Matt, you know, you you've you've had a a variety of experiences. Um, your your leadership and your relationships and your impact, you know, are I mean, people know Matt Kreiner here in in Grayvine. And, you know, when when you look back and you know, you're you're out fishing with, you know, on a lake somewhere, what is that thing that you want the people that you've impacted to remember most about your leadership style and how it impacted their lives?

SPEAKER_02 35:40

I would hope they would know, like my style is hands-on from the front and from the heart. And so I I would hope that they would know that it was genuine, right? And I think that's what I mean from the heart, hands-on and intentional. Um, and I think, especially with teaching and coaching, um, you'll kind of know as kids get older and they graduate out, if they're still seeking you out years later, yeah, you probably did a really good job. And so that's kind of, I don't want to say that's the only merit or or litmus test for success. But when I have kids reach out to me that are I used to and sometimes I don't know their names, right? But it's 10, 15 years ago, but they will send a message or an email where I'll see, and they're like, Man, you really like they still want to carry on just right where we left off. That hits different. And so I'm hoping, and most people I was around know that what I did was from the heart and was intentional.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Does that make sense? Yep. And so absolutely that's my hope. Matt, man, we we so appreciate you being on here and and you know, we've been blessed um, you know, not only to work with you over the years, but um, you know, I would say all three of us call you a friend. And and you know, just the I I go back to what I had said earlier, you know, having having known you for a number of years, the thing that Matt Kriner is is a relationship builder. And um, you know, we we appreciate you know your philosophy on leadership and kind of what makes you tick. And you know, everybody has a different philosophy and and what works for them and and that relationship piece and that hard work and that true um desire to impact people is Matt Kriner. Uh and and we truly thank you for being here. And and you know, one of the things we always like to do at the end of our podcast is our on tap moment and would like to know if you'd like to stay with us.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

All right, let's go. So, gentlemen, here is the question of the day. Thinking about sports in general, um, you know, as we often do, we are always talking sports and we're big sports fans. So, if you were to choose a sports superpower that you could have for one day, what would you do? Like, for example, shoot the basketball like Steph Curry. Okay. So, thinking about all sports, what is that one kind of superpower, or I mean, you just you think about dunking the ball like Matt or Michael Jordan. What would you choose?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

So, Michael, let's start with you, my man. All right, man. I I grew up around baseball my whole life. My kids play baseball. I played baseball growing up. Um, uh a legend whose skills I would like to steal for one day. I want to go, I want to have that Nolan Ryan fastball. Um, you know, they they have put that like on modern metrics, and I think they already had him throwing 104 or whatever, but they're like, there's no telling what that guy actually threw. So I think that would be a cool thing to have. Fun fun fact if you saw the documentary, Nolan's first two batters that he faced in high school. The first one he hits a kid in the arm and broke the kid's arm. Um, the next one, he almost hits the kid, goes to like a 3-0 count, and then throws three straight fastballs down the middle to strike him out. But they said the kid was standing so far off the plate he couldn't have touched the ball with a broomstick. Like having that having that hundred-plus mile an hour fastball would be a really cool skill to have.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

One I would not do is pick the skill of um Robin Ventura. No, of taking punches from Nolan.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

He had a good right hand. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, at least not the intellect of reporting.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

You know where Robin Ventura went to school?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Oklahoma State. Yes, yes. My wife as a kid was at that baseball game.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. All right, Kranner, what do you got, my man?

SPEAKER_02 39:36

I couldn't. There are two. Like John Jones, one of the probably it's a very interesting mindset to know that you are the toughest man on the planet. Like, there's not a person alive that can beat you up.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

That would be so surreal. Like, there's really physically no one that can beat you uh physically. That would be um fun to have.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

All right. So so John Bone Jones. John Bone Jones, yes, yes. UFC fighter. Um, that would be uh uh walk anywhere you want to, do whatever you want. Yeah, I can't. No one can touch you. Yeah, one day. Let's go on the planet. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

No matter what, Shaq can't beat you up.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Gilberto, what do you got, my man? Yeah, all right. You know I'm gonna have to go with cycling. Ah, yes. Right now, the current best cyclist is Tade Pugachar. Okay, he's from Slovenia.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Don't ask me to spell that.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

And some people are even saying that he could possibly be the best cyclist ever. Uh, who interesting. Most people would say Eddie Merck's is, but Tade is right in the same league, and probably before his career is over, he would he will probably surpass them. So I would like to cycle up Alpduez like Tade Pugachar. Alpduez is one of the iconic climbs in cycling. Okay, it's got 21 switchbacks. As you know, when they're going, when they build roads up a mountain, they don't just build one straight up, they go back and forth, back and forth. Well, Alpduez has 21 of those switchbacks, and so to be able to cycle up Alpduez like Tade Pogacar would be my first choice.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Interesting. All right, coming coming back at you though, uh Dave. What what about you? Who are you going with?

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Well, gentlemen, I would take one Sunday to play like Patrick Mahomes. I'm being Homer Dave here, but the I I would say, you know, we had we've had quarterbacks over the years who have revolutionized how that how the position's played. You know, you think about you know the Marinos and the Montanas and the Lways and Lamar Jackson's and Michael Vicks, but the way that he sees the field and some of the throws that he makes and um escapability, etc. It would be fascinating to have that ability and the brain playing that position for one day on a Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

And you'd probably be safe too, because if anyone even sneezed on you, they'd throw up flags. Well, you know, hey, whatever it takes, man. Whatever it takes. Just kidding, Patrick. Avid listener.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

All right, Crow.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Crow, what's your second one? All right. I I went kind of back and forth on this, and and you want a skill that you don't have, and a skill that I very much don't have is is golf. Um, you know, I I love to play golf. It's fun. I like to ride in the cart, I like to have a beverage and enjoy the sunshine, but uh, I'm not any good at it. And so I said playing golf like Scotty Scheffler for one day would be cool. Go out and go sign up for some local scramble and dominate and just go out to the Grapevine Golf Club here and just whip everybody. Show them how it's done.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

You'd want to do it at the Masters, though, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, but if I had the one day skill, though, the Masters is gonna be pretty embarrassing. Four days because I'm gonna go shoot like five under and then and then on Friday, I'm gonna shoot like 22 over, and it's gonna be a very embarrassing sports moment.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

All right, Kriner, who's your second person?

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Second is kind of off the beaten path, but not for you though. Not for me, not for you either, probably. Yeah. Since you know who this is, uh, I would like to catch fish like Jacob Wheeler. He's an MLF pro, uh, bass fisherman. Fishing is one of my big hobbies. And like uh Crow here said, like with golf, he's he's not good at it, but likes doing it. I'm not actually the best fisherman, but I love doing it. But if I could do it like him in one day and figure out how to dissect a lake and catch fish, regardless of the conditions, in any body of water, is unreal.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

You know, like you said, I like to fish as well. And the thing about Wheeler is, you know, often sometimes you'll have people that fish that, all right, I'm a deep water fisherman or I'm a structure fisherman or I'm a shallow water or this. He can do anything.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

And he's good at all of it.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

He's good at all of it consistently across the whole country, any body of water. And I'm like, yeah, he is really good. So if you're listening, Jacob, I'm open to go fishing with you. You just Come pick me up. We'll figure this out.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

All right, Gilbert, who's your final one?

SPEAKER_00 44:04

All right. I have always admired ski jumpers. Okay. You know, those guys that go down that long ramp and then just into the air.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

You're like a Renaissance man, Gilbert. He is. He is. Very unique. Don't give me baseball and football and golf. Like I'm a Renaissance man. We're bike ski jumping.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

But I don't want to jump like Vinco Bogotage. Do you guys know who that is?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yeah, who would want to jump like Vinco? Vinko's a poser. I have no idea who that is.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

All right, Crow, this is because it's before your time. Do any of you remember Wild World of the sports? Yes. The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Yes. Every time, whenever they would say the agony of defeat, they would show Vinco going down the ramp, and right as he gets to the edge, he tumbles and falls over to the side. All right.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

I've seen Vinco. I just didn't know that I had seen Vinco.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yep. So I want to ski jump like Maddie Naikinen. He is considered the best ski jumper in the world, four-time gold medalist. I want to know what it's like to fly, and I think that's as close as we can come.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Man, I I don't I have talked to people who have like went up, and you know, you can go up different places and kind of sit up there and see what it looks like. No way. No.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

We can probably Google how fast are they going when before they jump? When they hit top speed, like what's their top speed? I wonder fast. Very fast. Very fast. Can we Google that? Do we have a Jamie on this podcast? I want to know how fast they go.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

All right, Gilbert, you you let me know. I'm gonna do my second one. I am going to say it would be amazing for one day to run like Usain Bolt. Oh, yeah. Just that. I mean, you know, both 100, 200 meters. I mean, you know, he's running way sub, you know, what, nine, nine, six, something like that. And just to have that speed, knowing once again, like you said, being the fastest person. No one can catch you.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

No one, no, no. When you're running next to like Olympic level athletes and you can turn and like smile at them as you like on your way back. See you later. Yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

How do you deal with that mentally? Like, you are the best. That's unreal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

It's hard, but I just, you know, I do the best I can. What'd you find there, Gilbert?

SPEAKER_00 46:22

55 to 65 miles an hour. Yeah, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

You say Bolt does that, right? On flagground. That's unreal. I ain't doing it.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Yeah. No, and I don't like to get about above about like the fifth rung on a ladder. So I'm not here like that either. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

I'm with you. Well, gentlemen, man, that is great conversation. So, listeners, uh, please let us know um about what is that one sports superpower you would love to have for one day. We would love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Also, if you have any feedback on today's episode about leadership, feel free. Any questions, go ahead and let us know.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

You can send those to info at edleadershipontap.com. That is info at edleadershipontap.com. And don't forget to share it on the socials, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Or send us some fan mail through the podcast app. You can send us a voicemail or uh just a text message.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Until next time, keep leading.