SPEAKER_02 0:24

All right, welcome back to that.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Doing great today.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Everyday stars.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

All right, so let's talk about feedback from uh last week's episode where we had Anna Day.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yes, Anna Day, one of our uh amazing first-year teachers, longtime listener in front of the show, Nancy, to talk about how Anna was well beyond her years, the insight of composure, and how lucky the kids are to have such a fine teacher every single day.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

So we got some feedback from longtime listener Aaron, all-around good guy. He said, Ever since I started listening last year, I've been glued to the mission. He really has mentioned that he appreciates this year and hearing from people in all different walks of life and their leadership attorneys, uh, both in and out of the classroom. He says the messages everyone brings to the mic are very real and truly life-changing. And this podcast is a really great. We should put this in a commercial. The podcast transcends all vocations, backgrounds, and experiences. He's a fine arts teacher and is an aspiring leader. It says this is a graduate class in and of itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

We did get some feedback from a listener about our on cast which was a listener pointed out that I was a little bit confused. Which can happen if I think uh Elvis falling in love with you, correct? Absolutely. I was confused. I was thinking of the Elvis on you were always on the line.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

So you you know Willie should do a version of it, because Willie makes everything sound cool, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Um we also got some that uh I will always love you by Dolly Parton. That's very fitting right now. And Atlas by other games. That one has probably been played multiple times at a wedding. Absolutely. So they went with the the Dolly version of I Will Always Love You. Not the Whitney. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

She actually made more money off of the Whitney version than her own version uh from the songwriting class.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Also had another listener, probably around my age uh because they said Robert Fox. The first time I were song faced. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

That's a great choice from someone who's probably forgetful like you, Doctor.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Well, listeners, thank you guys so much for your feedback and continue to get those to us. So we'd we'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

All right, Dave, are you ready to talk about some human resources?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Okay, welcome back to Ed Leadership on Tap. So with us today, we have Tony Munska. He is the Chief Talent Officer at ESPrep Public Schools. Tony, how are you this morning?

SPEAKER_04 3:40

Um doing well, Gilbert. Glad to be on here. Love talking all things HR. So really excited about the opportunity to share some of uh my history and my thoughts uh on the landscape uh of human resources or talent.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Awesome. Tony, and just before we begin, I just want to tell you that uh when we uh told Dave that we were gonna bring somebody in with uh HR experience, he went all giddy on it.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

We're we're we're gonna geek out here a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Yeah, you know what, my fellow HR people, I I love to geek out to all things HR, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

So well, glad to have you on here. Um so uh Tony, he uh Gilbert, you know, kind of introduced you a little bit, but clearly, I mean, there's some uh history with you and Gilbert having worked together. Kind of walk us through your educational path and your career um in education up to this point.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Yeah, absolutely. Be glad to. You know, I I've always been, even when I was a young kid, right? Of like this person who wanted to serve and be in service to others uh and really impact my community. So when I went to UT Austin, uh actually majored in in social work, uh, that's right. Uh hopefully we'll win this coming weekend.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Well, you know, that's that's up for debate. We'll see.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Yes, right now, exactly. Yep. And so I uh I studied social work at UT and then started my career in Harlandale as a school social worker. I had two elementary schools that I was their designated school social worker. So was serving the south side of San Antonio. It was probably one of the toughest jobs I've ever had. Uh it was uh it was two elementary schools that had about eight uh housing projects that fed into those two elementary schools. So as you can imagine, there was a lot of challenges uh in the community navigating all of all of that in in the school, right? Um and so I did that for about three years, and I then I followed a girl uh up to Dallas uh and and joined Grand Prairie ISD as a parent involvement coordinator. So launching their first parent involvement program across that entire district. Um and so I did that for a few years until Dallas ISD came calling and they had this uh professional development position uh for someone to coach and train their community liaisons. Um and so I jumped at the chance. You know, Dallas ISD is a it's a huge district, great opportunity. And then from there, I approached about Tony.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Let me stop you real quick. So your first three positions, you already have a vast amount of experience. You start off in social work, then you go to parent involvement, and now here you are with professional development. Man, you got you got your hands in a bunch of pies there.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

I sure did. I sure did, right? And and I think, you know, when I think back of like the people that really pushed me, um, I would say was my grandparent ISD assistant superintendent Rudy Lopez, who was like, listen, everybody can say that they worked at a campus. Uh, very few can say that they worked at the district level. And so this is a great opportunity for you to do that. That's how he sold. I was gonna work more days for the same amount of pay. But but but it made sense, right? I mean, it made sense back then, you know, a young, you know, up-and-coming professional, that made sense to me. Um, and so yeah, so that that gave me a wide depth of experience, you know, kind of wearing different hats. And but it all, I think, Gilbert, at the at the end of the day, it's all in service to others, right? Whether that I did that as a social worker or uh, you know, working with parents or coaching and and training campus liaisons in Dallas ISD.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

That's great. Tony, I noticed that your title uh reads Chief Talent Officer as opposed to chief of human resources. Does that shift in name reflect a shift in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_04 7:51

First of all, just so you know, in in my 28, 29 year career, I've been a part of human resources, I've been a part of human capital management, I've been a part of human assets, and now I'm part of the talent team. And so I I I think there's there are some shifts, right? So, but but I've I've I've been a part of departments with with many labels. Um and I think what what shifts when you're thinking about talent is that you begin to focus intensely on strategic talent acquisition, leadership development, retention, and succession planning. Whereas when you think of your traditional, you know, CHRO, their primary focus is overseeing operational compliance, your payroll, your benefits, and administrative policy. So at the end of the day, we're in the people business. You know, our success at Yes Prep as a school system depends on the people we bring in, how we support them and how we help them grow. So when we invest in our people, we're ultimately, you know, investing in our in our students.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Now, Tony, I know from your history that you did leave the school system for a little bit and went into HR in the public in the public sector or the private sector, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

Yeah, private sector. I worked at Marriott, I left Dallas, ISD, where, you know, by the way, I had 13 phenomenal years. I always share with people like, you know, Dallas ISD is where my professional story really came into focus, right? Um, and so I'd enjoyed a lot of my time at Dallas ISD, but I felt, you know, I was at a crossroads in my career, and Marriott was one of the places I landed. Phenomenal company, by the way. And so I spent about three or four years in in hotels. Um, I did feel and had a lot of fun. Hotels are a lot of fun. Um, but I did feel like that my work was impacting the bottom line and not the community. And so for me, there was always this tension, right? You know, of uh is my work meaningful? And and so I had this that in my heart, uh, idea of public schools, uh charter school system here in Texas, uh reached out to me and was and was asking if I would be interested in helping them launch in Fort Worth. And to be honest, you know, when they first approached me, I was like, you know what? Uh I'm having a lot of fun in hotels. I'm moving up at Marriott. It's a great company with an international, you know, reach. I'm not interested. And they kept at it for about you know four to five months. Uh, it wasn't until Gilbert, uh, there was this young kid who walked in, was my son's age. This this kid was a dishwashing applicant, he was a dishwasher applicant. He was 20 years old. And since I had been in public school systems, I would always ask the applicants where they went to high school. Uh and it turned out, you know, this this particular applicant went to elementary school with my son, who was the same age, middle school with my son, and then in high school they took divergent paths. Uh I ended up moving my son uh to a tr uh to a um uh a magnet school, sorry, a magnet school, a science and engineering magnet school, and and his parents did not. Uh my son was, you know, at this point was at U of H petroleum Engineering major on the dean's list. Uh and this young man, you know, unfortunately did not go to college. And so for me, in my mind, I just felt a conviction, you know, of like, hey, you're not in the industry where you need to be. You need to go back to school systems and impact your community where where your work really does impact, you know, the Dallas Fort Worth community. And so called uh Idea Public Schools back and was like, hey, you know what, I'm ready. And so I spent about four years with them, launched in Fort Worth, and then yes, Prep came calling about this CTO job, and I've been meaning to come to Houston for a long time, and here I am.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

So part of part of your role, you kind of talk about that recruit, retain, and reward. You know, how do you kind of balance those three? Because that is a difficult time in schools. Um, you know, getting that top talent and you know, keeping them there, and then also rewarding either through compensation or through a uh positive work experience. So how do you kind of balance those, Tony?

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Well, I think the other thing that's important is it's coming out of COVID, you know, we used to say, like, you know, you've got to think out of the box, you know, in education HR. But when we came out of COVID, I mean, we had to build a completely new box.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I would agree.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Because everything, the profile, yeah, the profile of teacher you were looking for was, you know, changed overnight. And so we had to build a whole new box. And so when I think of that, uh, you know, for me, recruiting is definitely the hardest when I think of it, because it's so competitive right now. Yeah. You know, the the talent, the people that need the talent, the schools that are needing the talent, who you're competing with is vast. When I when I think of the other things, I get you in, then you know, I can I can find ways to reward you and celebrate you and bring you into our culture. I can find ways to coach leaders, right? To be better managers so we can retain you. A teacher is like you're walking down the state for up Texas, and you're going down, you know, the carnival, and you're so trying to get, you know, we've got so many people trying to get your attention to bring your your talents to their to their school district. So, you know, I I think that's that for me, when I think of those three things, is how I try to balance. I focus on recruiting, get you in, and then the other two, I again, I I can move things around and and and and really work to keep you.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

So so in that environment that's become so competitive where everyone's competing for the same people, how do you how how would a leader in HR, how do you make your your own district stand out relative to others? What are some of the things that you highlight to to to try and remain competitive in that market?

SPEAKER_04 14:07

One of the things that really sets us apart uh at Yes Prep is really our culture. It we're probably, and you know, again, I've worked in in several districts, a couple of charters at Marriott, who is one of the exemplars of employee culture. But Yes Prep truly is very employee-centric. Employee voice matters a ton to us. You know, we survey our staff four times a year to get an you know the a pulse check on them. You know, we have teacher advisory councils uh on every campus and at the district level to lift the the teacher voice. And so I think part of our secret sauce, right, is how we help our teachers and our staff feel seen and heard. Uh and that, and that again, I to me, I think that that begins in the culture you're you're you're creating at the organizational level. Uh, and I really truly feel right that that's what sets us apart. As far as you know, salary is always going to be competitive, our benefits are gonna be extremely competitive. We're we're we're one of, I believe, less than five districts or charter that offers uh parental leave, you know, within within, you know, aside from FMLAs. So there's a lot of things like that that we do uh that truly separates us um you know from the from competitors.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

All right. That sounds great, Tony. Now, this episode we're focusing mainly uh towards those educators that are interested in maybe HR being their path towards leadership. So going to the campus level, how do you work with principals? What do campus leaders get wrong about the HR system? And what does HR get wrong about the campus leadership?

SPEAKER_04 16:00

You know, I I think in terms in terms of how we work with principals, I think one of the again, going back to we are in service to others. So I often talk to my team about that, right? We are in service to those who are closest to our students who impact meeting our North Star goal of being an A district. And so, because of that, when we work with campus leaders, one of the first things we talk about is let's walk through your plan for your campus related to your talent. What does that look like? What's your overall goal for each one of these staff members? We build that conversation in to every check-in that we have with them twice a month to then begin, you know, determining how best can a person be coached. How are they building their bench for the leadership positions that may come open? Uh, how are they prepping their their leadership team for their next position, right? So there's a lot of that partnership that happens with with campus leaders. I often talk to individuals about who asked me, like, hey, you know, I'm a teacher, I want to get into human resources. What what's my path? And the first things I tell them is, okay, are you part of your interview teams? Are you part of the team that goes to job fairs to to represent your your campus? And what is what are you selling in terms of your campus? What are the things that make your campus stand apart, right? Um, and so there's a lot of those kind of opportunities on a campus that exist that can prep you for this position. When I when I think of you know what makeup of my team is, right? I always think of I want some classroom experience, I want some uh campus leader experience on my team, I I need some external to education experience in my team. Because I think that mix is really what will uh set an HR department apart from other HR departments across other districts or charters.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

That's good. Thanks, Tony. So, you know, part of the the human and human resources is having difficult conversations. And I think myself having been a campus principal before now in human resources, you know, that there's some experience that comes with that. How do you kind of work with your campus leaders or you know, coaches, whoever it is? What would be some advice you would give them about having those difficult conversations? Um, and we've talked about this on our podcast before, those those hard conversations. So what would be some advice you would give to people from your lens uh in the human resources seek?

SPEAKER_04 18:51

I think to me, you know, it it begins with, you know, how are you how do you approach yourself? How do you prep yourself for this difficult conversation? From what lens are you having this conversation from, right? And so for me, honestly, it I begin conversations like this with grace and love in my heart. Because at the end of the day, as a campus leader, you have to pour into others so they so they can grow, right? And so I also believe this whole candidate is kind, right? So being transparent on what gaps may exist, right? What's their areas of growth uh for the individual for the people that you're managing? To me, you know, I when I when I talk to leaders, we do a lot of role playing of how the conversation should go. Because I think where people struggle is actually in the moment. What are you, how are you prepping yourself for the question from the employee? Where is the where is the employee going to push you? Uh, and so there has to be prep time where you have role playing involved so that way the conversations can be can be can become clearer, can become more concise, and you feel feel better prepared. You know, one of the things that I always talk to folks about in terms of HR, in terms of our staff, we don't terminate people, people terminate themselves. And so a lot of times it's just having that candid conversation. Again, entering that conversation from a position of grace and and and growth as well. That's the other thing I tell leaders is you know, you've got to have three things, the three G's, right? You've got to have grit, you've got to have grace, you've got to have a growth mindset. And so you've got to understand that you're not gonna get everything right. So you've got to have the grit to keep trying. You've got to have grace, grace for yourself, but grace for your for your team. They're also not gonna get everything right. So you've got to self-reflect and ask yourself, what have you done to invest in them, to prep them to be successful? And then you have you have to have a growth mindset. You know, you may you may get some pushback from your staff of like, hey, you're asking me to do A, B, and, you know, or you're asking me to do B, C, and D, but you never told me what A was. And and so you've got to have a growth mindset of like, okay, I have some self-reflection. This is a gap I got to close.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

One of the things that we've talked about a few times on the show are, you know, AI and some of the new technology that uh are facing education now. So how how has AI or any of the new technology that you've seen changed recruiting, screening, supporting teachers? Has that changed the work you do on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_04 21:32

It it has some. Uh right now, we are, I would say we are in the toddler phase of AI. You know, we we're a bit further along than a lot of districts and what how we're using AI and we're building the guardrails and our policy. We just hired a managing director of of innovation and AI. And so so there's a lot of thought partnering that's happening right now, there's a lot of foundational pieces. to the to how we're going to incorporate AI into our academic instruction, into our staff related to HR, we're already using AI to interpret, interpret, you know, system survey, pulse check data from staff, help us develop, you know, a plans of action, evaluating the comments that our staff are saying, right? We've got like a 93% completion rate. We've got about 2300 staff members. So 93% of those 2300 are completing system surveys and adding commentary. And so as you know, a lot of a lot of the meat of of how people are feeling is in the comments, right? We use AI to sift through those and and identify trends, assist us in in action planning, obviously always you know validating what AI is saying. We also use it in investigations. We're using it uh in screening of applications, right? And so it's it's helping us move quick quickly. In fact in a month I'm stepping back with my team though to have discussions of what our next 10-year staffing plan looks like for HR for talent and how AI is going to play into it and what positions we should be thinking about either restructuring or you know or moving in a different direction because AI is just changing the game you know as you know in in in in the world and in and in talent.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Wow 10 year plan man that's that's really forward thinking right there. So Tony for those current teachers, assistant principals, principals who are thinking of moving into the HR path in education. Tell us what does your typical week look like and how does it differ from say life on campus?

SPEAKER_04 23:55

I would say you know a typical week for me as CTO, right, that's by this is the ultimate position for me. I've always wanted to be you know chief you know HR officer so to me this is my dream job. A lot of what what I'm doing is is opening the path for my team to execute the work. And so you know the day-to-day for me it's stop partnering influencing behind the scenes you know creating paths for them whether that's finding resource financial resources or staffing resources on the on the staffing side you know you've got your recruiters who are day-to-day you know you're you're you're sourcing candidates so no longer can can you wait for people to come your way right to see who's applied that's a losing strategy. So your recruiters are sourcing in you know uh individuals on LinkedIn uh they're sourcing on on competitors websites to see who their teachers of the year were uh to develop strategies to engage those folks you know you've got you know your business partners who are liaisoning with with with principals about you know who you know are we having the right stay conversations with staff that you know who put on their pulse check that they're unsure about returning you know conversations about performance management you know what supports staff need conversations around you know you know how they're investing their dollars in stipends you know you've got on the on the offside where you have your comps and benefit people you know a lot of those folks obviously is you're you're you're trying to process comp quotes as quickly as possible you're thinking on what's that next great thing for benefits that we haven't even thought of yet, right? So you know especially with benefits you're you've got to be planning ahead with your broker because again things change very quickly um and so you've got you've got to know kind of where you're gonna shift your benefits so as you go through budget development you're already advocating for changes on the on the benefit side so I I think it depending on the seat that you're in Gilbert you know you could be you could be a lot of tactical you could be in strategic uh you know level it just kind of depends on what what it is that uh what your role is in human resources or talent.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

I like that you referenced those state conversations and that's something that we've seen in our district too and i I've always thought about HR as like trying to recruit outside talent and trying to you know fill vacancies but it seems like a lot of it is also trying to preserve the great people that you do have. Would you say that's accurate?

SPEAKER_04 26:41

That I mean that's absolutely accurate. You know I think the last number I saw this was about a year ago the average cost to you know to to replace a a teacher is 20K. And so you know you think of you know all the the new training that goes into that the identifying the mentor the onboarding that's you know that's required of that and so it adds up well and add the add the recruiting code focus yeah correct and so so a lot of times for us I mean I you know as y'all know you know individuals quit their managers right they don't quit their jobs right and so and I would and and you've known individuals in your career that may have driven an hour to work at a school because of that leader and that school culture. So a lot of the times that you know a lot of our work is focused on how do we build that you know human capital muscle per se in our campus leaders so we don't have to backfill individuals who leave, right? You know, how do how do they how do we give them the the menu of of strategies or tactics that they can use to celebrate their staff, to recognize their staff for the hard work and I think a lot of folks get that wrong in the sense that they always think dollars when it comes to that and truly I think a lot of a lot of staff really just want to be recognized verbally and for their hard work and it doesn't always have to be you know tied to dollars.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Well we we've been doing the stay interviews the last few years and kind of the analogy I use that you know the the exit interviews the topic and the stay interviews are the physical physical next later made so here I think of you know the hiring fees you know we're we're interviewing campus principals all the time so what advice would you give a principal who has to hire quickly in August?

SPEAKER_04 29:13

That never happens I know I know no you know it never happens I think that you know that's probably one of the hardest things you know what I always what I always tell principals is listen you can't wait for the rock star to walk through your door you're actually the rock star you people come for you right and and and so if we're if we're if we're looking at at August when when we know that the applicant pool uh is not at it it's it's not full of A players right um and and it's got a lot of C players then we start thinking through of okay what are the gaps that that this applicant has that we can close? What you know what can you close what from central staff or home office staff what are the things that we can close um you know and I tell them I was like you know you want to you want to focus a bit on mindset right like can you can you uh how does this person see themselves in terms of you know uh are they a glass half empty or glass half full person? Because when you're hiring in August that person has missed pre-service training you know likely missed culture day at your campus and so how are you going to quickly move them move them along uh and to me that a lot of that begins with mindset because you're because the ones who are a candidates who are certified who have the 24 hours and the content that you know you wanted and to have all those things right those folks are probably gone in in May April or May right and and so that you know that's what I that's what I would always tell my principals of how they should approach hiring so late in the year. How do we how do we not how do we not get in that situation next year? And so one of the strategies that we've that one of the strategies we've implemented is using historical data to then allow our campus leaders to overhire because we know there's going to be some summer surprises right yeah and so how do I identify what roles or what certifications what subjects we should actually be overhiring to be ready for that summer surprise.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Let me uh let me kind of follow up with that because you brought up a good point about that that lifting for that growth mindset. So thinking through the interview process what are those listen for that you think are critical in finding the very best candidates for a hiring manager?

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah you know to me you know the secret is being strong at probing because I I think every kind of again going back to AI AI now can help you interview right so every uh candidate that preps well will answer a question somewhat effectively but it's the skill of probing and asking that secondary question and exercising pause. And so for me developing that skill set of giving the applicant an opportunity to expand on their response and pushing them a little bit if you hear something that may cause you concern. One of the things that I always tell uh any leader is you know don't leave don't leave an interview with a question that you didn't ask. Because it's it's it's kind of unfair to the to the applicant because you're leaving with a question you just you didn't want to ask them. Maybe it and now you've got this doubt that maybe they would have addressed. And so if you have a question and you or you want to probe some you know further use the interview to do so and see how they respond to that.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

One of the things that we've talked about on other episodes also is striking a a work-life balance. And I know that that's something in every role yours included that that we've got to pursue what are some of the things that you do to strike that balance come on podcast.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Yeah absolutely yeah clearly hanging out with friends on the podcast hanging out with friends on the podcast for me truly it comes down to what do I enjoy outside of work uh and whatever that whatever that is that feeds your spirit whether you spend 30 minutes to three hours doing it you know will rejuvenate you and energize you for me it's my patio uh and and making making margaritas and grilling I love that and so what I what I try to do is I try to make every minute uh be focused work when I am at work so that way when I then can step away and turn it off per se you know I can focus on doing the things that will feed my spirit whether that's the patio whether that's reading whether that's spending time with loved ones whatever that is to me that's that's how you strike that balance how I do it. So let's take that a step further how do you make it okay for your direct reports to have that work-life balance you know one of the things that I learned early on in my career you know I've had phenomenal leaders I mean I have really been blessed I've I've had you know Rudy Lopez in in Grand Prairie I've had Michael Inojosa Mike Moses heavyweights right in this education industry that have really mentored me and and helped me kind of prioritize what's important and I'll never forget it man they you know the early on it was listen I could either care about watching you in your seat for 40 hours a week or I can care about you getting the job done and being productive. And and at the end of the day, you know and you see it in hotels by the way as well right you hotels you're looking at profit and loss. Don't care how how how much work you put in the A you put in your hours or 40 hours it's did you were you productive and were you successful. And I do the same thing with my staff right I tell them that same thing listen I'm not a clock watcher as a leader I'm I'm a goal watcher. Did you meet your goal and were you productive? And as well with my team the other thing I say is you know all of us are replaceable here at work. One place we're not replaceable is at home. Yeah and so you've got to understand that your first team is who you have at home and you have to take care of that first team because that's how you will show up at work. And as much as we try right to to keep both things separate that the personal may you know doesn't come into play and and are professional it it it kind of does. Yeah uh and it and it manifests itself in many ways. And so I often tell my staff right like again I I don't watch the clock for you guys you get your job done do it well uh be productive and we'll be and we'll be successful and that's at the end of the day that's what matters to me.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

That's great. Thank you sir.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

All right Tony so you've kind of answered this question but if you can kind of just summarize it what are some traits that make someone a good fit for a career in HR?

SPEAKER_04 36:26

You know I think one of the things that you know you you you've got to when you when you go into talent when you go into human resources things can be really black and white okay there's a lot of people that see it that way and I guess that's okay but a lot of the work in talent and in HR operates in the gray and so it's so important to to one subject matter expertise right know your know your laws know your regulations know your employee handbook obviously that's foundational but also kind of know who you are in service to right know what those individuals what those stakeholders what are they looking for what do they need and so you know we we could talk all day about you know certifications you know getting your PHR or your SHERM certification that always adds some credentials behind your name you know we could talk about what I told you the the the grid grace and growth mindset it still applies to people in human resources but I think a successful HR person is going to operate in the gray effectively because a lot of the work that you're going to be doing is going to be in that gray area.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

You must have been listening to one of our episodes because we covered exactly that dealing in the gray.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah it's a hard thing to do you know Tony I I I love just your experience having been all over in the Grand Prairie and your your work in Dallas and Alan Carter and one of the things that we talked about in a lot of episode are in two minutes one is we talked about just those qualities of an effective leader. So in your expertise and your experience what would you say are the top three qualities you feel a leader needs to be successful and you mentioned the grade and the grid are there other ones that you would add to that you know I I I think another thing is like I you can't you don't ask staff some to do something you can't do or you're not willing to do and I've always operated in that way because you know your rank and file will all they're watching you.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

They're watching to see did you did you ask me to to give up my time with my child to be at this PTA meeting once again at night for this performance were you there? You asked me to get ready for this job there and the the you know that the tables need to be moved and you know the the tables may need to be wiped the the the floor may be you may need to be swept did you do that with me? And and so I think those that is that is a quality in a leader that's important. I think the the other thing you know that that is important is is humility and maybe it's related to growth mindset. You know that there's a lot that is expected of individuals whom a lot has been given to and you have to remain humble understanding the the seat you hold the responsibility and the penalty of leadership that comes with that and a lot of that to me is rooted in humility and uh admitting sometimes you may not have the answer or you may have made the wrong decision and you need your leadership your directs to help you get back on track. And that vulnerability can be extremely difficult for leaders to do effectively but I think it's it's a quality that is needed. I think I think being selfless you know it again I I am a product of you know we we call them coaching trees right when when you ask hey you know which coaches have have Nick Saban you know has he has he developed you got a whole ton of folks are gonna are gonna stand up. And so when I think of the individuals that I'm a part of their coaching tree is not forgetting that someone poured into me to be where I'm at today. And so as a leader you have to be selfless and understand that you should be doing the same thing. And that's how you honor you know the the their legacy the people that poured into you.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I love that you you touched on selflessness uh humility vulnerability a lot of times you know inspiring leaders think it's about having all the knowledge being able to do all the things being able to answer all the questions. I love that you you touched on some of those things that you know we sometimes may perceive as weaknesses in ourselves that are actually strengths in in terms of a leader, being willing to admit when we're wrong and things like that. So thank you so much for that. As we as we kind of wrap up this portion of the show um one thing I'd love to know is what's the best part of your job and what is it that keeps you in the work?

SPEAKER_04 41:09

You know I think for me it's just that knowing that my team's work is giving children that grew up like me, you know, in poverty the opportunity to be surrounded by people that believe in them. You know, we I often tell them you know in talent we are the gatekeepers. We are the gatekeepers of who we bring in to teach our children, our students, to impact our families, to lead our teachers, you know, like we're we're ultimately the gatekeeper and that's a lot of responsibility. You know but but that's what drives me to know that my team is at the forefront of changing life trajectories, unlocking you know economical access to build generational wealth for our students, right? It's just like think of the wildest dream that you can have as a child. And now to be a part of the department that goes to find the people that are going to make that wild dream possible is just incredible. I mean I'm getting goosebumps right now as I think about this because I I just take it so personal. And so the other thing I would just say is you know for C-suite members as I mentioned earlier employees quit their manager not their job and we're no different at the C-suite level. And so I I know that I'm blessed to work for the CEO in Mark DeBella who's far none the best CEO in the charter space. Like I'm proud to say that and how he has built us in that room to like go all hands in the middle and the COO and the chief schools officer and the CTO and the chief of staff and the chief externals officer and the and the chief financial officer can go all hands in the middle and say that each other's work means the same in you know if we are to keep our promise to our students. So you know the work is meaningful.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

It's also a lot of fun with this group of executives and the board members that we have I guess prep all right yeah that sounds great Tony now before we move on to our on tap segment I want you to tell our listeners why should uh students in Houston choose yes prep what's going on at Yes Prep that kids need to be a part of you know Gilbert we were one point away from being the first a district charter in the state of Texas we're 89 and so our focus is getting kids to and through college and so what I would say to a student to our family who is who's thinking about you know joining yes prep or who is evaluating options is I would say you know come to a an organization come to a school where there's a lot of like minded students a lot of like minded families that are seeking

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Something more for their for their for their lives. Do it with us. We're going to do it in a fun way. We're going to do it in a way where there's psychological safety for them. Whether you know camera safety for them. We're going to do it in a way that's fun. And you can have meaningful relationships with other students, with the community, with the staff. There's something for everyone out there. And I truly believe in the mission of this craft. And we're doing it well. We are investing in our students. And we're not going to shy away from having high expectations for both our staff and students. And we're never going to shy away from the hard work. So I would say, you know, this is the place where you can be your whole self. And make that wild dream that you have for your child, or if you're a student, that wild dream you have for your future, where you can make that happen.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Awesome. All right, Tony. Well, thank you so much for joining us now. Next, we do a uh fun segment called On Tap, and every guest on our show has agreed to uh participate. So no pressure here.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

No pressure then.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Can you join us for this? Can you join us?

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Absolutely. I you know, hey, let's always game for not knowing what I'm getting myself into.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Very simple, very simple.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

All right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

All right. So today's on tap segment, um, we have talked about a lot of different things in on tap, but really have not discussed kind of how we started our career in the workspace. Um, and and it's a very fitting thing in human resources here. So our question today, Tony, and everybody here on the panel is what was your very first job? And kind of describe it or an interesting story about your very first job. So, Crow, uh, you want to kick us off here?

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yeah, let's do it. No, my my very first job, I was 15 years old. I worked for the utilities department for the city of Grapevine. And so uh very fascinating work we did. We uh basically would go read water meters and change out water meters every now and again. They would give me a couple of buckets of paint and I'd go paint fire hydrants on the street corners. But my my most interesting memory from that uh that work, there was a time where you know we didn't really have anything in our department they needed to do. So they loaned me and a buddy over to the waste management facility in Grapevine. So they they take us to this waste management facility, and it is our job. This is the tanks where everything that gets flushed down a toilet goes. And it's our job on this particular day to take these high-powered water hoses like a fire hose and spray the nastiness off the off the sides of the tanks in the waste management facility. Now, a few interesting things about it that day is that facility, at least at the time, was infested with brown or close spiders. And so as we're doing this, there's spiders running around your feet constantly, and a lot of those are brown or close. Um, and and yeah, we learned real quick as you're spraying a high-powered hose toward a waste tank, don't get too close to it because then you know it'll cause things to to fly up in the air at you and stuff like that. So that was an incredibly interesting day of work for a 15-year-old in my first gift.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Tony, as we would say in human resources, other duties as assigned. Yes, key keyword duty.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Other duties as assigned.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yes, yes, it sounds like it. Very much, very much. Well, Tony, what what was your uh your first uh job or an interesting story about it?

SPEAKER_04 48:10

Yeah, um, yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, my first job, I was nine years old uh as a migrant farm worker, and that was my first real job. I got a check and everything for that. We travel from the real Brandy Valley up to Ohio and Michigan, uh, and we would harvest strawberries uh and cherries in Michigan, and then we'd go down mid-summer to uh Ohio, and we would harvest the you know the cucumber and the tomato. You know, I did that uh every summer um you know until I was 17 years old. And so I always tell folks like when you know when I was a kid, my summer camp looked vastly different than yours. You went to an overnight summer camp, I went to a microfarm worker camp uh and worked my butt off uh uh in the summer. But you know what I would say you know is if you ever need advice on where in the stage of being ripe a fruit or vegetable is, let me know. I know all the secrets. When I go to H V or to Albertson's or you know, you know, Kroger, I that's I can tell you like what is when is it ripe? When does it need more time? When are you gonna eat it? This is when you need to buy it. So, you know, it was it wasn't the most fun of times. Uh but but it was uh it was one of the things I think that have fueled my my desire to to be successful in in this life.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

So when you're done with this HR thing, you can be a personal shopper. That is what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Absolutely. I mean, everybody's gonna be happy. They're like, this is the sweetest watermelon. This is I don't know how this guy picked this, but this is exactly perfect.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

That's awesome. Well, Gilbert, what was your first gig?

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Well, you know, when when Tony mentioned that migrant worker, I I have actually done that before myself because I don't count it as my first job because it was one summer and I joined my brother who was a regular migrant worker. Yeah, and yeah, I went to Florida and to Indiana, and yeah, but no, the one I'm focusing on is my the one where I got the first paper paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

And that was when I was starting college, and I was a busboy at the Lowe's Anateau Hotel at the Nana Grill, which was a fancy restaurant on the top floor.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

And my interesting story almost got me fired. So, you know, I tell you it was a fancy restaurant. So we would set the tables before the restaurant opened, you know, with the cups, the plates, the forks, the knives, and all coffee cups and everything, right? And then once the customer would leave, we would reset the table again. Well, at the end of the night, when we closed, a lot of that stuff was still left on the tables and we had to clear it out every night. We didn't leave it overnight.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Even if it wasn't used.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Even if it wasn't used. So picture me with this large tray, not the kind that cocktail servers have, but a large tray full of plates and saucers and silverwares having to navigate going down a set of stairs. And you can just imagine what happened.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

How many dishes?

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Oh, quite a few. Not the whole thing, but uh quite a few dishes were broken. Uh the manager called me into the office and you know, just he could have fired me and it would have been fine, but he basically told me, hey, next time be more careful. There wasn't a next time because uh a few weeks later I I I had to quit because the job just wasn't conducive to me going to college. Yeah, it was at night. So um, yeah, that was my first job.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

He he worked in the gray there a little before you. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. I'm glad he did. Dave, what about the growth mindset here? So my first job, um, I was uh growing up, Tony. I I grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, and um I uh was a paper boy for the Manhattan Mercury. Um and so there would be uh a stack of papers. So I kind of did our neighborhood about oh, probably a uh maybe a four-block radius. And uh every Monday, Monday through Friday, um there'd be a stack of newspapers. I was probably I don't know, 10 or 11 years old. Um they'd deliver it to your house um there after school, and you'd have to roll them up and put them in uh, you know, the the rubber bands. And if it was raining, you put it in the bags and hop on the bike or walk with my little uh bag and run them around. And then there wasn't a Saturday paper, so that was a day off. Um and then Sunday morning paper. That was the thick one. Yeah, so you had to roll those up real and tight. And uh, so I'd always have a lot of buddies that kind of helped me. But the one I do remember is right at the end of our street, our street kind of ended in a cul-de-sac and really nice family. And it was one of those afternoons you're kind of running in a hurry, you know, running, running the route, throwing it right through the screen door. Yeah, yeah. But you know, once again, being having humility and and and grace, I I went up and owned, owned up to it, and they were they were wonderful, and and we took care of it, you know, financially. But uh I that's one I always remember right through that screen door. Oh wow. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

All right. So, listeners, we'd love to hear what your first job was. Um also any questions you may have about our in the chair episode on human resources, any questions for either Tony or Dave, send us uh email at info at edleadershipontap.com. That is info at edleadershipontap.com.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

And follow us on the socials on Facebook, Instagram, and uh Twitter. We would love to hear from you guys.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

And you can also send us either a text or voicemail. Wherever you listen to your uh podcast on, you should see a button that says send us fan mail. Go ahead and press that button and leave us a message. Tony, once again, thank you so much for joining us. You are great at your job, and it sounds from the way you expressed yourself today, the way you articulated yourself, that you are making a big difference for Yes Prep and for the students in Houston. So thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

Tony, it was great visiting with you and and thanks for everything.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

All right, until next time.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Keep leading.