SPEAKER_01 0:24

All right, welcome to Ed Leadership on Tap, episode four. How are we doing today?

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Man, everything is great. Just wrapping up the week here.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

All right, Crow is running a little late. He's gonna join us in a second. So uh figured we'd better go ahead and get this introduction out. Sorry it's a little bit late. I know we're gonna publish today's episode Tuesday evening as opposed to Tuesday morning. So life has gotten in the way. That's right. Especially at the beginning of the school year. Absolutely. All right, so last week we spoke about We spoke about instructional leadership.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

That's right. Dr. Downey. Did you get some good feedback there, Dr. G?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

We actually did get some feedback from a new listener, Victoria. Victoria, thank you for listening. Now, Victoria is not in education, she's actually in sales, but she heard about our podcast and started listening. We're glad you're listening. So she listens on the way to work and whenever she's out to going to meet clients. Um and she says that, you know, this is a great podcast, not just for educational leadership, but for leadership in general.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Awesome. I would agree. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

And she has even begun sharing some advice with her boss. Okay. Yeah. So she's kind of told her boss about, you know, when we spoke about sending the mass email when you're trying to correct a behavior when you really should be sending that email or talking to that one individual person, that's the problem.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Yeah, yeah. That is a leadership uh stumble sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

And the other one was about building people up. Okay, importance of making sure that people's confidence is built within the workplace. Very nice. Man, that is awesome. And Dave, every time she walks into the break room now and she sees a few seconds left on that microwave, she thinks of you.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

I appreciate that. We're it's it's one microwave at a time. That's all we can conquer. It's just one microwave at a time.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Now, our on-tap segment was um jobs that we would have if it weren't in education, correct?

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Yeah, and and you know, or like in retirement times, what what else we could do. And what was interesting is it really almost centered back to having a job where you are not supervising anybody. Um, and so we heard a couple from people uh being like a Walmart greeter, greeting people as they come in, just friendly, not having to supervise anybody, and uh also working at Costco, just working the register at Costco.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, I would want to be the Walmart greeter, but I wouldn't want to be the person that has to check out your basket when you're exiting.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

I'm with you. Too much responsibility. Exactly. I just want to say hi. How you doing? That's it. Exactly. So well, thank you, listeners, for the great feedback. And uh, we ready to rock and roll with episode four?

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Let's do it. All right, all right, welcome back, gentlemen. Um, episode four. We have an in the chair segment today.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

We do, we do.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

As you know, we've done several in the chairs before, we've had uh many different roles represented. We had uh superintendent, principal, assistant principal. Today we're gonna go in a different direction. We are going to talk to an educational consultant. That's awesome. And as we know, that is an opportunity that is available to many educators. You have many organizations that hire consultants straight out of the educational system. Uh, you have textbook companies.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

I mean, I know some that have gone in with uh architect firms. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

That's that's not a bad paying game.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

No, that's a good one right there. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

All right. So today we have uh an old friend. Well, she's not old, but uh you know what I mean. We have a friend, Dr. Stephanie Baddock, who works for New Tech Network. New Tech Network. Dr. Baddock, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Thank y'all for having me. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

It has, it has. So, Stephanie, you've worked with all of us before. And uh, well, no, you she wasn't with Mr. Crow.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

No, we might have done a group project at some point or something, you know, many, many years.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Oh, okay, okay. All right. So kind of give us your your education journey. What got you sitting here, your steps throughout the time, and then we'll get into kind of that education consultant.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Sure. So I went to college thinking I was going to law school because I had been a high school debater, and that's what high school debaters do is they go to law school. Uh, and found out pretty quickly that was not gonna be the thing for me. And rather fortunately, I was judging debate tournaments, and a uh high school debate coach pulled me aside and she said, Stephanie, I think you give great advice to my students. What would you think about being my assistant coach? And so I started um a couple days a week and on weekends coaching her kids, uh, traveling with them, and really fell back in love with debate. And uh that was what put me on my education path. So I started out as a speech teacher and debate coach, which was a lot of fun. Uh, but thankfully uh I got to move into some other content and taught social studies, which then took me to uh doing a master's program with some friends that were in the same department that I was. And that's where I found school administration at that point. Now yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Now, up to this point, this has all been with GCISD.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

I actually taught at the high school that I went to. So I was working right alongside people that had taught me and knew me from a young age and the transition from glasses to contacts and all of that, uh, which is always super fun. The change in hair color, you name it. Uh, but yeah, taught at Colliville Heritage for nine and a half years, did my administrative sort of internship there, and thought I was gonna spend the rest of my campus life at Colleville Heritage, and ended up at the sister rival school, Grapevine High School, which was fantastic for me, quite honestly. Like that that change ended up being really good for me. Seeing another school system, uh, worked there for three and a half years, was the associate principal for academics there, got to work with Dave. Yep. How many years did we work together? I think it was just the one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Was it just the one?

SPEAKER_04 7:01

And then you really, yeah, then you moved over into Capel.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah. Dave showed up and she said, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

See you later. Well, I you had transitioned from middle school. Yeah. And so I was like the academic high school background. And that was just a good opportunity for me to like test out, okay, I know a few things. Yeah, maybe I could be a principal. I got a call from a friend that I had known for my teaching years. And she said, Hey, there's this principal job opening up, and I think it would be a good fit for you. It's project-based learning. Uh, why don't you go check it out? And from first call to sitting in front of the school board, it was about 48 hours, and suddenly I was the principal of a high school campus.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Um, and I didn't know what it was. And it was this thing called New Tech Network, and it was project-based learning, and I fell absolutely in love. And so when I was looking to make a career move, I didn't know what that move was going to be. I thought it was gonna be something at the district office. Uh, the New Tech Network opened up a position that was based in Texas, and I looked at it and I looked at it and I looked at it, and I just was pretty curious about getting to basically share the good work that we were doing with others across the state. And now I get to do it with a lot of other states as well. So very cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

We we've all oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

No, I was just gonna say for our listeners who aren't really familiar with new tech, um, can you just give a synopsis of what they do and how they kind of integrate into school systems?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah. And one thing that would probably be useful for everyone to know too is that we're a nonprofit, which is very different from the consulting landscape of working for profit. And um, our organization is really about student outcomes, what most people think of as like portrait of a graduate stuff. That's really how it got started. It wasn't because of project-based learning, it was because a school community was saying, we're graduating our kids and they look great on paper, but then they get into these real world scenarios and they don't know what to do. So this model came about to sort of fill that gap of how do you give every student every day the experiences that they need to be successful no matter what? And so it's bringing together that what are the outcomes we need? How's how do we get there? Which we think part of that is project-based learning. And then, like, what is it that you need to change about a school culture in order for those things to happen? So there's a lot of like adult culture, student culture that kind of goes into it, but those are really like the the big components. And so we work with schools to say, how do you look at yourself as a whole system to make this happen?

SPEAKER_04 9:40

And is it nationwide?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

It is nationwide and in Australia. Oh, and in Australia. Little road trip, right? I I wish, but it that has not materialized.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

So we we've each talked over time about people throughout our our journeys in education and the different roles that we've done that kind of encouraged us or nudged us toward the next thing. Did you have you had some leaders, whether it's from teacher to administrator or administrator to what you're doing now? Are there leaders that really encouraged you or inspired you to take that next step at any point?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

I'm gonna start with the last step that I took. When I was principal, probably the most important thing that I learned from New Tech Network was really what does like an instructional leadership team mean? And I had my teacher leaders who we met every week. We sat around a conference table and we were only focused on really instruction. It wasn't building stuff, it wasn't the usual administrative stuff. And what I learned from that experience was that leadership was not about having the answers. It was about having the right people around the table. They were the ones that really sort of like gave me the courage to try different things, that uh we sat shoulder to shoulder, elbow to elbow. And leading in that way was what I felt really helped me to know, like, okay, there's something valuable that I've gotten here that I could share with some other people. This is the right time now to make this next step. So it wasn't any like one particular person, it was like that team of really just, okay, how do we come at this problem together, whatever that problem would have been that day or that week, as opposed to me having to have all of the answers all of the time.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Yeah. Very cool. So we've talked about that before just in leadership in general. And oftentimes people who have maybe been the classroom moved into assistant principal role, moved into principal role. I think pretty much every guest we've had on here has talked about that kind of aha moment that I don't have to have all the answers. And and having those people around you and being okay with, I don't know right now, but let me do some research and try to figure it out. So that is definitely a um common theme. Yes, yes, it's definitely an aha moment for people that I think everybody thinks they get in this role and all of a sudden they are blessed with all the knowledge and and you're not.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

And it helps to have a vision.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

It helps to have a concept of what you're working towards, but you need you need the team to get there for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

How does a typical week and what you're doing now, how does that differ from your life in the principal role?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Oh my God. You don't even have to finish that question. I don't even know where to begin.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

And then after that, he's gonna ask you if there are any openings. I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, it's gonna be a long answer. You know, in the principal role or just school administration in general, your day is gonna begin early before other people are in the building, typically, right? When you're a school administrator, your day is gonna end after most people have left the building and you're gonna have evenings that you have to cover administrative duties and games and all those things. And some of those are fantastic and fun. Even in your downtime, you're gonna be out for a run and your superintendent's gonna call, or, you know, you're gonna be taking your kid to something and somebody, it teacher is gonna, you know, something is gonna happen somewhere. Um, and there's just a lot less of that in the consultant world. I mean, you'll have people that'll still reach out to you for different things, but it's, I would say to a much lesser degree uh does not happen as often. So a typical day, I've got internal meetings where we're working as a team. I've got external meetings where I'm talking with schools and districts. Some weeks I'm on the road and I'm directly delivering services, working with schools, either to tour existing campuses or I'm doing a pre-visit to their campus to sort of see how things are going and, you know, what are the goals that we could have with a partnership. Sometimes I'm presenting at a conference, but I would say the hours are a lot more flexible. And that was part of the draw of going into this at the time that I did. My daughter was starting middle school, my son was still in elementary, and all of the sort of demands were coming. And being able to just like make your own schedule to some extent, you have to get the work done. You gotta meet, talk to people on the hours that they're available, and maybe sometimes you're talking to somebody on the West Coast late or whatever. But you're a little bit more in control of that in a consultant world than you are in say, you know, yeah, when you're tied to a campus and and you're like afraid to like take a vacation or have an anniversary, and you're like, okay, who's gonna cover this? There's there's a lot less of that in in what I do now for sure. I I might do a run in the middle of the day, depending on I mean, it's Texas, so I'm on a treadmill during that run.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, let's be honest. But you know, I might do something at 7 a.m. and then you know, that's my lunch break.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah. So you're making this sound very attractive. However, your job is not for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

It is not.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

It's not. So for what kind of personality, what kind of traits would this job be attractive for?

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, it's a it's a helping role. If if you're in a consultant position, you've got to have like I fall in love with every school that I work with. Like I go and I meet the people, and you you have to want to be in love with every single situation that you're working with, whether it's a middle school in Del Rio or a high school in Colorado. Like you've you've got to have that, right? You've got to have that sort of desire. But then you also just have to have a lot of organization and a lot of drive and determination to stay focused on what are the things that I need to accomplish and what are the meetings that I need to schedule and what's that email that I need to send? Because there's not somebody in an office around the corner that's gonna be checking on you, right? Like you, that's something that you have to stay on top of to be successful. So I would say organized, love the people, love the work.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

So so you would think that a job like this, you wouldn't have to be as invested as you are when you have regular relationships with staff, with students, with parents, but you're telling me that no, you and you do indeed have to be invested in the job.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I remember every building I walk into. I remember walking into an elementary in Dallas ISD the day of Uvaldi. And and before even knowing that was happening, looking at how the principal was hugging the kids in the hallway and the building, I don't know how old that building was, hundred years old, however old it was. But seeing that principal loving on the kids in the way that she was, like, I will forever tie those two things together and just think about like the importance and the and the value of what it is that we do every single day. And I can't imagine how you would do something like this and not see all of the people and all of the needs and all of the places where you're working. Like the thing that I talk about with my job is I believe every child in every classroom, every single day, deserves high quality learning experiences. And when you walk in somewhere and you can see that not happening, you you want to help it. You want to change it, you want to do something that's gonna sort of improve the lives of those kids so that someday they're gonna come back to that school and talk to that teacher and tell them what a difference they made in their lives. And and that's just something that I I think you wanna do if you're in a role like this.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

So you bring an interesting perspective, and I didn't really think about it until we were you were talking about that. And and we often talk with the the people that we have had on here about just leadership in general. And while you know you're a phenomenal leader, you get a perspective to see a lot of different leaders across the country, across the DFW area, across the state. What are kind of three things you think all leaders need on a campus? And is there something that you've seen throughout your travels where you go, man, that that there's concerns there?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

I mean, yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

What would be something that that would be concerning from a leader going into a leader campus leadership position?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Sure. Um let's start with the positives and then I can maybe talk about the other side. So, and I said this when I was hiring teachers, like I think there's a certain level of intellectual curiosity and agility that you need to have to be able to look at a situation or a problem or a student and to be able to say, okay, something's not working here. Why isn't it working? What is it that I can do to change whatever's happening? And so I whether it was like I said, hiring teachers through now, I think that's like one of the sort of like critical aspects is I mean, part of that is care, right? You have to like want to see that there's something there that needs to be fixed, but then you also have to be able to say, like, well, what is it about this situation that's going on? So I think that intellectual curiosity agility piece is is one. I think the second piece is um I guess I'm gonna come combine two terms, like team and trust. Um, you know, who is it that you're putting around yourself and what role are you asking them to fill? Are they there to say yes? Are they there to be an advisor? Are they to be a a truth speaker? And you kind of need like all of those different kinds of people, right? Like, so you know, the ability to assemble a team to do those things, I would say, you know, probably is gonna be number two. And then I would say number three is you have to know what you're doing it for, right? Like you have to know that at the end of the day, you're here to improve the lives of students. And it's not just to pass a test, although those things are important, it's also to set them up for life. And the other thing that I just have really, as I've been at this longer, have gotten really clear about is life isn't something that happens after you graduate high school. And I think probably COVID brought that into more clarity for me. Like life is happening to our kids now. And whether they're a pre-K kid or they're a high school senior, like right now, they need the skills that we ought to be teaching them every single day.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Not when they're in the real world.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Not when they're in the they're in the real world now. Exactly. Right? They need to be able to do things on their own now. And that just I think has become so critically important. So having that goal, that focus, knowing what it is that you're working for, I think I'd put that on the list as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

So we could kind of infer that maybe the absence of those things would be the some of the challenges. Maybe the absence of those things. All right, we'll we'll go with the positives on this one.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

So when you do see the negative, the absence of those things, how do you create real change when you don't have the authority? Oh, that's as the building principle, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

That is the question of the day. Um, yeah, it's it's hard in a consultant role because you don't have any authority. You can coach, you can advise. You know, sometimes I'll be working with you, usually it's somebody in like a principal role who's like, I don't know what to do. Just tell me what to do. And obviously, a situation like that is going to be easier than one where you just have to use influence. But a lot of it is about like helping people understand the big picture and helping cast a vision for them if they can't quite see a vision, and helping them understand also who is on their team that can do the things that maybe they can't do. Um, so we do a lot sort of in our organization, really around instructional leadership team, around understanding if this isn't your skill set, who is whose skill set is it? And how do you give them the authority to be able to make those kinds of decisions? And oftentimes there's a lot of things that are out of the control of the campus principal, and there's stuff coming at them from the district. And so you try to use some influence with the district leaders if you get a chance to talk with them. I was always a little bit rogue myself. Uh, and it was like, okay, what's the letter of the law from the district and what's the spirit of the law? And how do we do what we know is right and what we believe and still meet the spirit of the law of what the district is asking us for, so that when we have to ask for forgiveness, we've still done what they want. It just looks different than maybe what they thought. I don't know if you should post that.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Education is a field that can be slow to change sometimes. Um, and so with the work, the work you're doing at New Tech Network is focused on project-based learning, deeper learning outcomes. How do you help a district that is or a district leader that's anxious about moving away from the traditional model that they know?

SPEAKER_00 22:48

And the funny thing is, project-based learning isn't even like new anymore, right? Like it's been around for so long, which creates its own problems because a lot of people have seen it now and they either think they know what it is, or um maybe they tried it once but didn't have the follow-through.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

It's like a PLC where everyone's got like their own definition of what that's exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Exactly. And it's it's not from a bad place, it's just from a lack of knowledge, right? And so really it's about painting a picture for people. I like to say that to know us is to love us. And so one of the first things we do with somebody who's thinking about working with us is try to get them into an existing school. You know, there's a lot of well, it works for them, but it won't work for us. And so being able to paint the picture that, like, if something is good, it's good. You know, there's uh that phrase, uh, necessary for some, good for all. I I believe in that with my whole heart, that a lot of the strategies that you'll see in project-based learning sort of fit that definition. And so it's helping people see like the end state, like the big picture, but then sort of like dividing up all of the individual steps of, okay, who do we start with? Who are the people that are gonna be reliable to get the work done? You know, who are the people that are gonna help spread the message through the rest of your district? And it's just being really a thought partner with what are their concerns, what are the concerns they know they're gonna get from their people, how do we help address those? And then just being really relentless with following through on that vision.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

In in my experience with project-based learning, uh, there is a cycle to the process. Like with many initiatives, it usually begins with training for all, and everybody is gung-ho, ready to go, they're experts, and you begin implementation. Then as people leave, there is some training, but not as extensive as there was at the beginning. And then as more people leave, there is less training, and before you know it, everybody that was there from the original training is either gone or there are very few people left. And you still call yourself a project-based learning school, but you're not doing anything close to what you're supposed to be doing. It is morphed. Exactly. Yes. Do many of your organization your districts, do many of those districts maintain a long-term relationship to prevent that from happening?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

I will say we see it all. Just like just like what you're describing. Um, I will say the places where it carries on, you get this sort of like mantra of this is who we are, this is what we believe, and this is what we do. And the schools that carry it on create their own systems, their own language, their own training so that they're responsible as much for the onboarding as we possibly ever are. Um, I would say probably the most successful schools. We'll still send people to like training with us from time to time, but they have developed their own internal systems to carry it. Like that, that you'll see as being like the most successful sort of continuation of any of our campuses. I think there are some other tools and things that have come along in recent years that have made it easier to. This used to be a really expensive model. It still kind of is an expensive model. Project-based learning, it is a step in a lot of processes and all of that kind of stuff. But a lot of people have developed their own sort of like way and language and they use their own sort of like district graduate profiles and are able to pull them in. Um, there's now AI that you can take your standards and you can take what a project is supposed to be and all of those steps. And it can help you build things so that you're aligned to standards, because that's one of the things that can oftentimes get in the way of a project-based initiative is people get so excited about the 5k they're going to throw. Or, you know, we had we had something called punkin chunkin' where they built catapults and trebuchets. And, you know, like there was a big festival that went with it. Like, if you don't stay invested in, okay, why are we doing this? We're doing this so that for the learning, for the content, you know, for so that they'll be successful, it can be difficult to maintain. But if you get the mantra, this is who we are, this is what we believe, this is what we do, this is how we align everything, you know, that's where you'll see the success.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

So speaking of success, if you know, we've talked with um our listeners about kind of observation, seeing what you're seeing in the classroom. If you think about that top school or district that's doing it the right way, and we said, hey, come with us, what would we see when we walked into the building and when we walked into the classrooms?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I mean, the first number one thing when you walk in a building is going to be student ownership. The second thing is going to be learning living on the walls in some capacity. Um, and that looks like a lot of different things at an elementary level. They're really great at having things like project walls where you basically get like a true roadmap of like all the different steps that the students are taking. And then you've got like work product around it. That'll happen in high schools too, sometimes. They're a little bit less artistic, usually, but then you see at the elementary level. But then when you walk into the classroom, it's two things. Number one is who's doing all the talking. Usually in a school that's doing this well, the students are the ones that are going to be talking. And then when you engage with them and you say, What are you doing and why? they're able to give you an answer that has nothing to do with like a statement that's written on the board, but they're able to say something like, you know, we are community water planners who were trying to solve for the drought that happened last year. And so we're trying to find out how to get water to uh neighborhood gardens. I don't know, maybe something like that. That's just an example. Sometimes it's something really concrete like that, and sometimes it's a little bit less sort of direct as that. But if they're able to say, this is what we're doing and this is why we're doing it, that's usually the biggest tell at any any campus.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

We've talked about how the work you're doing now is is very different and you're not in the same building every single day. Is there anything about that role of principal and being in the same building that you miss? And then on the flip side of that, is there anything about the principalship that you do not miss at all?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Oh, I miss being in a building every day a lot, quite honestly. I um I didn't know this term until we had um a sub who had been in the business world for years. And I was the kind of person that, as a principal, I was walking the building constantly. Like I could tell you how every teacher starts their class, how they end their class, how they interact with their students. Like I could tell you what project was going on. If somebody emailed me, I was answering it, you know, answering it by just walking down to their classroom. And one day the sub said, I see what you're doing. And I was like, What is that? He was like, Management by walking. And I was like, Management by walking, like what he was like, it's a business term, but apparently that's what I was doing. And and I loved just being able, like, if you've got a problem, I'll solve like management by walking around. Yeah, like if you need something, I'm there. Um, you know, uh, mini hands make light work was definitely one of the phrases um on our campus. And I miss that sort of like feeling of like maybe it's gonna be messy, maybe it's gonna be a hard day, but like we're all gonna be here together. I miss walking into a classroom and finding a group of my teachers planning a project together, and they're like goodwill hunting on the you know, whiteboard or whatever, you know. Like I miss that sort of like quality of things. I miss the weird little celebrations that would happen in the hallways, you know, like you never know what it was gonna be, a math problem solved, or you know, a date to the prom. You know, I had my husband do a fake prom pose for me because they there was like a senior prank to to ask me to prom. You know, that kind of stuff I miss. What do I not? Like, how honest should I be?

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Um As honest as you want, and please name names.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

You know, it would probably be the paperwork. You know, there's just to meet the needs of everybody, there's a lot of things that you have to document. And not that those things are bad. Um I'm the parent of a dyslexic. Those things are incredibly important, but some of it just gets really tedious. And some of it you can you can go, aren't I supposed to be a leader right now, instead of in my office having meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting? So that's probably the thing that um I don't miss the endless, endless paperwork and and meetings.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

Absolutely. So thinking about your role as, you know, assistant principal, associate principal, what were some of those things that you learned in that role that you've been able to parlay into what you're doing now? And then is there something you're like, man, I wish I would have known this going into this role?

SPEAKER_00 32:16

So things that I learned along the way that I have used now, obviously I'm pretty big on that team aspect. Um, I think the other side of it too is especially in what I do consulting, like everybody has their context. There's a story, there are systems, there are years of things that have led people to where they are now. And so in a lot of ways, what I learned was understanding and grace for the circumstance. And so when I go into a school now and I'm like, wow, there's a lot of work that needs to be done here, you know, like kids are everywhere, nobody's doing anything. You know, when I see something like that, like now I just see the opportunity, you know, I can s I can look at it and go, they just don't know any better.

SPEAKER_04 33:12

This is how it's always been.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

This is how it's always been, or they just don't have the conditions, and it just so happens that I've seen some things, I've learned some things, I've got some things to share. We can make sure they know better, we can make sure that they get the systems that they need. I'd say that's the the biggest thing is like knowing like the job is really hard and everybody's trying their hardest and they just don't know any better or don't have the time or capacity or ability, and those are things we can work on.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

So if if an educator, whether that be principal, assistant principal, counselor, is thinking of eventually moving into the can into the consulting role, what kind of things should they be doing right now?

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, I mean, staying curious, you know, seeing what's out there, seeing the types of things that people are working on and doing. I think finding like your passion, like finding the thing that you feel like you can contribute to others, um, I think that's incredibly important. There are lots of different types of consulting roles out there. I would not be somebody who would be happy selling curriculum to people. Curriculum is important, it is a part of the process, but that it that's just not what's gonna get me out of bed every single day. Finding the things that you can add value to other people, I think like that really is the most important thing is what is it that I have to contribute? And then finding that right fit.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

A topic we've touched on a lot, you know, with in with different roles is the idea of work-life balance. And you referenced there's there's a little bit of opportunity for some better balance with with the hours and and when you might be getting calls and things like that. But what are some of the things that you do now or that you did as a principal to ensure work-life balance?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Oh, I mean, as a principal, that's when I became a runner, uh, was as an assistant principal. And, you know, there are things you can't say to people. And so I would say them in my head on my runs, and I would have really, really good runs. And and that was honestly taking care of myself physically during that that time when I was in a building all the time and making the time to get out and do that was was probably the most important thing. Now I will say there's a motto that I heard from a Peloton instructor, because I still do all kinds of workouts, and she's a mom, and she said, the rule she lives by is you can miss one, but you can't miss two. And I just I just think that's really important in understanding, even in this modern day of our kids, like we all want to get all the video and be there for all of the big moments and everything. And and the the thing that I talk about now is my daughter uh was on a soccer team that made it to the state tournament last year. And there was a game or two that I missed in the playoffs, and I was, you know, I had to be on the road. Sometimes you just gotta go do deliver the service, be the person, meet the commitment. But at the same time, I got to be there when the big moment happened. You know, like I got to be there when when they made it to the state finals. And so understanding the perspective of, and that's just modern parenting, whether in whatever role you're in, is is that you don't have to be there for everything, but be there when it matters. And if you can't, you know, know how to show the support and the love, because they'll feel that too.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah, I I like that there's a little bit of forgiving ourselves in that because a lot of times it it's not you see one approach or the other, like either either I'm all in on work and and missing all the things, or you know, I'm gonna be sure and be at everything and and maybe something's lacking on the other side now. So I I like the the notion of prior I'm gonna prioritize that and you know I might I might miss one at some point, but I'm gonna be there for the next one. No, that's good. You know, in the in the modern public education landscape, and I know that's true in Texas and elsewhere around the country, you know, funding is a challenge. And so working as a consultant where you depend on some of that funding, you know, to to support the the work that you guys do to help schools, how what what impact have you seen as schools have certainly felt the pinch from that? Have you had the same experience?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yeah, I mean, right now we've seen a decrease of funding at the federal level and at the state level. And then we also see where funding has to be spent in one, you know, it can only be used for one type of activity versus another type of activity. And so that's definitely affected the landscape of consultancy right now. What I would say ends up happening in my line of work is you just have to become really intentional about what the outcomes are that you're seeking through any type of partnership and say, what is the most efficient way that we can get to the outcome that we're that we're seeking? And maybe we can't do everything that we would have done a year ago or everything that we want to do right now. But what is the most impact we can get for our students with what we have and build it from there? But funding is definitely a big part of the picture right now. And we've seen a number of districts scale back commitments or, you know, choose different activities or try to go in-house. And um, that's just uh the the reality right now.

SPEAKER_04 38:16

So, you know, being on a campus, uh, either being at you know, Grave Vine High School, Collyville, New Tech, you know, our success at the end was shaking their hands, coming across the stage graduation, and and you see that success right there or the completion of it. How do you kind of look at your role in consulting that success? What do what do you gauge that on?

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Well, you got me emotional there talking about shaking the hands of graduation. I mean, a bird walk for a second, but I mean, that was the thing when you were having like a tough discipline conversation with somebody, and you're just like, one more week, kid, one more year, you know, whatever, like that that conversation.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

More hours sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Like you have no idea. I am looking forward to shaking your hand on that stage on graduation day. I'm trying to get you there. Like, let's figure that out. Um, yeah, sorry. That was that was a little bit of a little memory there. I mean, success now looks different because everybody has a different reason why they why they seek out a consultant or why they seek out new tech network. Sometimes people are coming to us because they're trying to solve a question of school choice. There's competition in their area, they're losing students, they know they need to do something different because their community is demanding that they do something different. And so success happens. I'm working with a district right now where they started with a high school, it was so successful, they added an elementary. Now they're adding a middle school to bridge that gap because their families see the value of the work that they're doing. And so they're building this sort of like PK-12 pipeline. So that's one type of success, right? Is being able to fill that need. Sometimes people find us because they have to turn the ship around. They have had uh in Texas accountability, maybe an F for however many years, they've got to do something different. And they take the radical notion that it's not just about test prep, right? That it might actually be about learning. And they might say, we're gonna try, you know, high quality instructional materials and project-based learning at the same time. And the next thing you know, they've got a B or a C, right? And that's an a level of success. So those are like really concrete things. The sort of more like anecdotal sort of feel of it is when that relationship continues, when people see the success for themselves and they're able to talk about their students, and you bring a student panel up, and a kid is able to say, I couldn't talk to anybody a year ago, and now I'm leading my groups and my class, and I'm here in front of you, being able to participate in a student panel. You know, it's things like that. Or a district leader finds success with us and moves on and talks their next district into working with us. Like it's it's those kinds of things where people are able to look at their own children in their own buildings and come back to us and say, we just had this thing happen that was amazing and wonderful from this kid who we would never have expected this from a year or two ago. Um, and I would say that's not all that different from what you have in the building. Uh, we just get it a little bit more secondhand, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

So really kind of that that macro and micro level. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

So I hear a lot of that passion when you speak about when you were in the building. Do you ever see yourself returning one day?

SPEAKER_00 41:53

I was so glad you asked that question. And you know why I'm glad you asked that question? Because I talked to a lot of people that leave who say they're never coming back. And I can't imagine not coming back. I didn't leave because I was looking to get out of the building. It just so happened that a job came along that fit my passions and that was gonna allow me to help more people and maybe possibly like fit my lifestyle at the time, you know, to be able to be around for some things with my kids. But I I'm coming back. I don't know when. I don't know where. I don't know when, I don't know where. Um, but it's it's hard to just influence on the side. And I would really love to get back in and and make some changes directly that I get to to more, you know, personally see the fruit of. So I'll be back.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Dave's making a note in his I'm I'm like, all right, what can we what do we got here?

SPEAKER_04 42:48

What do we have here? Well, Stephanie, um, you know, I I didn't get a chance to say it earlier, but you know, you you'd mentioned um, you know, being there at Grapevine High School, and and I'll tell anybody this. You and and Dr. Koontz, who we've had on here before, that transition from some knucklehead coming from middle school and really wrapping the head around and that high school, you two were monumental in what we did at Grapevine High School. So thank you for that. And I know your leadership and and what you did in Kappel and the influence you're having on people now is is monumental as well. So we appreciate you coming on the show with us and and giving uh the the listeners something different in education. Many people don't think about that consultant side of things. So one of the fun things we do at the end is we do an on-tap segment and would like to know if you'd like to stay with us.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Sure. Absolutely. Let's make it happen. All right.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

All right. So this week we've got kind of a random topic, but a fun one, I think. We're we're looking at sketch comedy characters. Think Saturday Night Live. Mad TV, some of these other kind of shows, and those characters that just those recurring characters that just stick with you and just make you laugh. And so we've got a few good ones on our list. Look forward to hearing what you guys say. Dr. G, you want to kick us off?

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Sure. My first one is from Mad TV, which was a series that was on for a couple of years. I think it was on Fox. I don't remember. Yes, sir. Yeah. But Stewart.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

I remember Stewart. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Stewart played by Michael McDonald, not the singer, but the comedian. He played this chaotic, hyperactive toddler with an overbearing mother, Doreen. And just to see a grown tall man in diapers acting like a two-year-old. Doing that high-pitched voice. Yes. Like, and his catchphrase, look what I can do. And then doing some writhing with his body. I mean, that was hilarious. I do remember that one.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Sorry, writhing with his body.

SPEAKER_04 45:03

All right, Dave. All right. So this one, he had his own show for a little bit, but really what I remember him from as a maybe as a kid was like on Johnny Carson, on David Letterman. And it is the wonderful Super Dave Osborne. Um, Super Dave was by uh comedian Bob uh Einstein, um, very naive, optimistic stunt man. Um, he was in commercials, he had his own show from 87 to 91. Just fantastic, very evil, canivel-ish. Yeah. Um, but the shtick was great, you know, like being on the catapult that hits the backboard, and he'd always do these stupid stunts, but I just remember those as a kid from Carson and Letterman. You just taught me something. His name was not really Dave Osmore. No, no, it was not. I did not know that. I didn't know that either. Yeah. Super Dave Osmore. And he's done commercials and um people would recognize him. Crow, what do you got?

SPEAKER_02 46:02

All right. If if you know A Aaron, if you know Jay Quellen, if you know Balakh, then you have met Mr. Garvey from Key and Peel. Uh, that's one of my favorites. Yeah, shared in in the education world a little bit because it's just uh kind of a fun education connection. He's the inner city substitute who's shows up in a suburban classroom and is dramatically mispronouncing everyone's names to the annoyance of uh himself and the kids in the room.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

So that's I think that's probably been showed in every uh PD somewhere in a school. Absolutely. Dr. Baddock, what do you got?

SPEAKER_00 46:35

I'm gonna have to give a shout out to the ladies. Uh SNL, Mary Catherine Gallagher, played by the one and only Molly Shannon. Uh as an educator, how could you not love such a quirky student as Mary Catherine Gallagher? I think we've all known different versions of her, probably. Obviously jumping up, saying superstar, but who can possibly forget the episode with Whitney Houston where they were like competing singers? Do y'all remember that? And like, so you already had Molly Shannon who was totally into it, and then you had a superstar, a true talent like Whitney Houston, who was right back in it with her. Um, you just can't, you just can't beat that at all.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

I'm gonna have to revisit that one. I'm just picturing her like sniffing her fingers straight out of her out of her own armpit.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Yep. Gilbert, who's your second one? All right, you know, I'm sticking with Matt TV. I love that show. I originally was gonna say the Vancombe lady, but then I thought about it some more, and then I remembered Miss Swan. Uh Miss Swan, played by Alex Borstein. She was a soft-spoken immigrant lady who works at the gorgeous pretty beauty salon.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Gorgeous, pretty beauty.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

That's right, yes. And she would frustrate people to no end when she was trying to describe a scene. So, for example, there was a policeman trying to get the description of a thief uh from her, and all she could say was, He looked like a man and could never get past that. And the the police officer, of course, is getting frustrated and finally says, What did he look like? And then she would come back with, Okay, okay, I'll tell you everything. And she'd pause and then she'd go, He looked like a man.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

I'm gonna have to check this one out. I don't know this one. A common theme here is like all these kind of frustrating people, and it's funny that we don't want to encounter frustrating people in real life, but they make for great comedy.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

That's right, yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Indeed.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Dave, what about you?

SPEAKER_04 48:44

Sorry, I'm gonna cheat a little bit just because I mean, there have been so many great characters on Saturday Night Live over the years, but no matter I mean, Saturday Night Live has had their ups and downs. They've had some really good seasons and some seasons not so funny, but something that has been consistently good throughout time has been their weekend update. Love and and that's where uh different comedians sit at the desk and basically give news and commentary over the years. And and uh really uh one of the first was the great Chevy Chase and uh Jane Curtin. Over the years, we have had Dennis Miller, we have had Norm McDonald, um, Colin Quinn, Jimmy Fallon, Tina Faye, Amy Poehler, um, and Seth Myers. Just great TV, just some of their commentary and even some of their great characters that they've had on there as special guests. Weekend update never fails.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

My favorite part of the current weekend update, which is Michael Che and Colin Jones. Colin Joseph I know where you're going. I know where you're going at the end of the season when they trade jokes, when they write each other's jokes. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Yeah maybe we could do that for a future episode. We are working PG. That would be our final episode. Well, we'll go out with a bang. All right. For my set, I'm going, I'm going to SNL for my next one, too. Do you know Debbie Downer? Are you familiar with Debbie Downer? I love Rachel Drach is Debbie Downer. Um, no, it's always in some sort of cheerful setting where the people around her are happy. And then she gives some terrible, like sad, depressing real-world statistic, and the sad trombone sound effect comes in. She makes the face. Uh, Debbie Downer is one that always uh makes me laugh when I see that one. All right, Dr. Baddock, who's your last one?

SPEAKER_00 50:34

I'm gonna go with somebody pretty recent. Uh Kate McKinnon on SNL does a character or did a character called Colleen Rafferty, and her character got abducted by aliens. And so the sketches were her and the other people she was abducted with being interviewed by I forget it was like police or FBI or whatever, telling her story of her abduction. And she basically puts her hands all over Ryan Gosling. I forgot this, but they had Meryl Streep on play her mother. And she played the character just as well, basically, as Kate McKinnon did. And I just think it's the the absurdity, the absolute absurdity of the alien abduction and Kate McKinnon with her hands all over Ryan Gosling.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

That's right. And and everybody else who has been abducted has had these wonderful experiences, but Kate McKinnon, it's like they examined her, you know, inside and out. And to watch it and she sells it. Yes, and to watch the other uh comedians on that show trying to keep a straight face as she's describing that. It's hilarious. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of these here where where they have to work really hard not to break character from some of these because they're fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

All right, listeners, we would love to hear your favorite sketch comedy characters over the years. Or any alien alien abductions stories. We would love to hear. We'd love to hear those as well.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

And if you have any feedback about our topic today, any any questions on educational consulting, we'd be glad to take those.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

You can reach us at info at edleadershipontap.com. That is info at edleadershipontap.com.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

Or you can reach us on all of the socials on Facebook, Twitter X, and Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Or you could send us a text or a voicemail on whichever app you listen to our podcast on. There is a button for you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

So or just swing by Gilbert's house. We might be here.

unknown 52:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Until next time, keep leading.